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Post by Zealote on Sept 1, 2008 1:42:17 GMT -5
BOGUS you're missing the point here. Ujio asked for a sparring session to test the dwarven strength. Not your abilities as a spellcaster. And knockout is different from knockdown. You might remember when you play PnP RPG, you can make a guy pass out without kill him. Thats what i was RPing man. Not death. You can control your punch so you wont kill me(RPing). This is just not possible for real here on NWN2. But it is possible to RP that. As i've been doing with several players. Thats the meaning of sparring. If you forget that, and go as the game tells you, you cant knockout nobody. But in PnP D&D, you can. As in RL. Thats all i im tring to tell you dude. Thats why i can use my Brain and RP that i passed out with your punch, because we were fighting until one of us were knocked unconscious. As you should do as well.
Thanks -Zeal
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BOGUS
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Post by BOGUS on Sept 1, 2008 3:54:24 GMT -5
We had that really nice IC sparring wit Ujio, (i even shaved my head as promissed by taking away hair overraids ;-))awesome fighter, wanna see him on arena, i can become really rich betting money on him. BUT - thats really a thing to discuss: we are or having PvP or not at the moment on server. I think we should tell everyone, that PvP system is not ready, so there is no killing in game yet. It means that all RP, when you have someone dawn, as *split on his/her corpse* *searching corpse* and all words in a RP, which means that you killed someone, should be not used. And let us not RP as we wish - in one situation its a corpse, in another not. There must be no PvP corpses yet. All victims are just knocked out and down for 60 seconds. That would be really logical. When we will have PvP system, with loosing some exp and getting some exp, with transferring dead to the temple or hospital - then there can be RP about corpses. At that moment, when PvP system will be ready, their will real need in arenas, open ones, where will be holiday fights, with stricted rules, or some illegal in the basements of some buildings or taverns, without any rules at all. Thats no good to make such sparring fights on the road as we did it today. But it was fun! Even Pandoriah desided to take part in it, while Ryokami was a refery ;-)))))
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BOGUS
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Post by BOGUS on Sept 2, 2008 8:53:23 GMT -5
Yesterday i have mat our drow.... dont know what to say... small worm RP, buff, blades, she is gone and i am left bleeding. Afterwards i thought about it so hard, that nearely got killed by treents, it would be a pity to loose a few hours of time because of thoughts about PvP. What would i have done in that situation if UD was ready? Would i go down and kill some lower levels drow for a revenge? No, don't think so. It was a really nice roleplay situation, dwarf saw drow, she killed him. At first look everything okey.... but i have a strange feeling, like as we missed something, or something important didn't happen. Drow was gone, i stand up, luckely was not surrounded by treents to that moment and kept on slashing treents, thinking about that. Still thinking, don't know, maybe it will be much better if i have lost a bit of exp and was teleported to temple or hospital....ye, seems this is a missing part of PvP.
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Post by blackbird on Sept 2, 2008 13:58:38 GMT -5
maybe it will be much better if i have lost a bit of exp and was teleported to temple or hospital....ye, seems this is a missing part of PvP. I really hope you're not serious. In most situations, people shouldn't find themselves losing XP as a result of normal RP'd PvP. If that were the case, then it would be incredibly easy for high level players to antagonize low-level players. Not to mention the problems it would cause for DMs when players "accidentally" kill each other. Even the teleporting idea doesn't make a whole lot of sense. PvP should really be fully RP'd and not semi-scripted by the server to make things "easier." Eventually "easy" turns into "Wtf, how am I supposed to RP _____ when _____ happens every time we do this." Player interactions should not be scripted in advance outside of emotes, etc. If you want to RP losing XP(which makes NO sense RP-wise since "XP" doesn't really exist except in the sense of amnesia and other mind-affecting ailments) and being teleported to a hospital/temple/random building(slightly more likely), there's a readily available solution that doesn't make everyone suffer: Get killed by an NPC.
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BOGUS
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Post by BOGUS on Sept 2, 2008 23:30:20 GMT -5
I have mat drow - did she kill me? Nope, i wasn't returned to life by Tyr (didn't appear in the Temple) i wasn't resurected by Flaming Fist patrol cleric (didn't appear in a hospital), i wasn't driven back by Mircul (didn't visit fuga). So i was just knocked down by her, but drow RPing that she killed me and made a sacrifation to Lloth by killing me, i am RPing that i was not killed.
Lets make it that way - first person is knocked down, then, another player can finish him (as monsters do) if one player is keep on atacking another player, who is already on the ground, then that player really dies and loose not 5% of all exp, but a small ammount and is teleported somewhere, or have a chanse to wait for cleric. That will be logical - otherwise it like that:
Killer: *spliting on a corpse* Ye, i killed you! Victim: ooc No you dont, you just knocked me down. Killer: ooc I killed you! you on the ground bleeding! Victim: ooc yes i am on the ground, but i will stand up in 60 seconds. Killer: ooc For me - i killed you freak! Victim: ooc And for me you didn't, you moron!
I am pretty sure that no drow is so kind, to leave someone alive, after they knocked them on the ground, Lloth needs sacrifaces, and any drow RPing that they killed in PvP, still there are letters to Flaming Fists, where that victims asking for help, and RPing that they were badly injured, or luckily stayed alive after they have mat drow. That means that RP about PvP is different for Killer and Victim, that is bad, there must be one PvP rule for everybody, if you sparring, and person is on the ground - means you knocked him down, if you keep attacking him, while he is on the ground - that means you killed him (after such attacks he has a pup up window with a question - main menu, wait for cleric, resurect in Temple, resurrect in Beregost Hospital). Hospital can be in the middle of the whole BG SCC map, not in Beregost, just for making life easyer and not to run threw the whole map. Don't agree?
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Post by blackbird on Sept 3, 2008 0:05:44 GMT -5
Look, there's a very easy way to solve the problem that you seem to be having and thankfully for the rest of the players on the server, it doesn't involve the sudden loss of XP (which is essentially, in RP terms, the player's memory, a nonsensical thing to lose in the first place unless agreed upon by the involved parties) due to RP'd PvP. The solution I propose is simply this: the Drow clearly perceived that you were dead; whether you were actually dead is your own choice. Perhaps the Drow was mistaken and went on to do whatever the Drow was doing.
I'd also like to point out that you really shouldn't be arguing OOC about getting killed by someone else simply because you know, OOC, that the subdual mode will cause you to get up again in 60 seconds. That's almost a form of metagaming.
"Oh, hey guess what, you can't kill me because subdual mode means I get up."
If I were a DM and saw someone say that instead of RPing a near-death or false-death as a compromise, I would probably kill the person outright or at the very least deduct XP as a penalty for metagaming.
As a further solution, I would also like to point out that after the 60 seconds of lying on the ground, you do have PC tools which allow you to continue lying there, even in a wounded pose. This makes it very easy to RP death/near-death after PvP fighting and to be healed by adventurers passing through the area.
If you really really really want to kill yourself and lose XP (once again this makes very little sense in terms of RP unless you like to RP getting frequently knocked on the head and having amnesia), please go get killed by a regular mob. Your HP will already be low after the PvP; just let something else finish you off.
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BOGUS
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Post by BOGUS on Sept 3, 2008 0:44:10 GMT -5
Drow, cutting off head of her victim: Oh yes, Lloth will like that *takes head of a victim with her and goes away* Victim, gets up after 60 seconds: What a luck! *prays to his god* She didn't notice that i am alive and she didn't finish me!! What a lucky day for me!!
Very happy body without head keeps on level upping. LOL.
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Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Sept 3, 2008 2:43:37 GMT -5
Drow, cutting off head of her victim: Oh yes, Lloth will like that *takes head of a victim with her and goes away* Victim, gets up after 60 seconds: What a luck! *prays to his god* She didn't notice that i am alive and she didn't finish me!! What a lucky day for me!! Very happy body without head keeps on level upping. LOL. I guess that guy doesn't have a use for his head. ;D
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Post by shawnystyle77 on Sept 3, 2008 3:21:21 GMT -5
I have mat drow - did she kill me? Nope, i wasn't returned to life by Tyr (didn't appear in the Temple) i wasn't resurected by Flaming Fist patrol cleric (didn't appear in a hospital), i wasn't driven back by Mircul (didn't visit fuga). So i was just knocked down by her, but drow RPing that she killed me and made a sacrifation to Lloth by killing me, i am RPing that i was not killed. Lets make it that way - first person is knocked down, then, another player can finish him (as monsters do) if one player is keep on atacking another player, who is already on the ground, then that player really dies and loose not 5% of all exp, but a small ammount and is teleported somewhere, or have a chanse to wait for cleric. That will be logical - otherwise it like that: Killer: *spliting on a corpse* Ye, i killed you! Victim: ooc No you dont, you just knocked me down. Killer: ooc I killed you! you on the ground bleeding! Victim: ooc yes i am on the ground, but i will stand up in 60 seconds. Killer: ooc For me - i killed you freak! Victim: ooc And for me you didn't, you moron! I am pretty sure that no drow is so kind, to leave someone alive, after they knocked them on the ground, Lloth needs sacrifaces, and any drow RPing that they killed in PvP, still there are letters to Flaming Fists, where that victims asking for help, and RPing that they were badly injured, or luckily stayed alive after they have mat drow. That means that RP about PvP is different for Killer and Victim, that is bad, there must be one PvP rule for everybody, if you sparring, and person is on the ground - means you knocked him down, if you keep attacking him, while he is on the ground - that means you killed him (after such attacks he has a pup up window with a question - main menu, wait for cleric, resurect in Temple, resurrect in Beregost Hospital). Hospital can be in the middle of the whole BG SCC map, not in Beregost, just for making life easyer and not to run threw the whole map. Don't agree? I assume you are saying this in response to your meeting with Ne'lleenya. I know she didnt kill you, I never once acted as though she did. Yes I spit on your body and walked off. Nothing about sacrificing you or chopping your head off. That kind of behaviour is silly as I would be "perma-killing" you, players cannot do that. She beat you bloody and walked off. Sacrifices/slaves/permakills are reserved for npcs. Please stop trying to spin things to make me look bad.
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Post by Ryokami on Sept 3, 2008 4:09:04 GMT -5
Yea I do think there needs to be a script to where if your killed by a PC you return to your temple or where ever the dms decide with no xp lost.. of course there is memory loss of the victims dead and if you come back you cannot report anything unless there was a witness.
If they want to add a system to when you kill a player you are rewarded the xp and the player killed is lost the xp then go ahead.. but that may add some confusion to people that enjoy meta gaming and intend on slaying everyone for xp.
They could add small little ritual areas in each zone that are a spawning area for when killed in pvm or pvp
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BOGUS
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Post by BOGUS on Sept 3, 2008 10:09:16 GMT -5
Now you see? I was sure that Ne'lleenya killed me, but didn't write any letter to Fists or whatever. But shawnystyle77 roleplayed that Ne'lleenya didn't kill my dwarf. How we can know were we killed or not? Sent PMs "sorry, did you kill me or not?". I could have write a letter to Flaming Fist that i was recently killed by drow and, thanks to cleric in patrol, returned to life. I could add it this incedent in to my diary threat (well, i still don't have one) as a story how i was killed, BUT I WAS NOT, and to avoid such misunderstandings i do suggest possibility of being knocked down or killed.
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Post by blackbird on Sept 3, 2008 10:53:53 GMT -5
How we can know were we killed or not? Ok, this is ridiculous. Last time I checked, if another player defeats you in PvP and says you're not dead, you shouldn't suddenly decide you are dead. The problem here seems to be that you also want control of the attacking player. You don't get to tell the player who defeated you with no intention of actually killing you, that you are going to die because you want to (which makes even less sense now, considering that earlier in this thread, you argued that you weren't dead because of the "60 seconds" metagaming you were going on about). What I see happening here is EXTREME FLIP-FLOPPING. Your story keeps changing, BOGUS, so I don't know what to believe. If for some reason you have a serious disagreement as to how you want to RP an incident with another player, then that is where the RP should really come to an end. If you can't reach an agreement, then the incident should be ignored and you should go on playing as if it never happened.
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BOGUS
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Post by BOGUS on Sept 3, 2008 12:15:57 GMT -5
My point is - i am against RPing 60 seconds knockdown as you like. Or we taking as a rule that death from PvP doesn't exsist yet, or RPing all knockdowns, when it is not sparring with naked hands as death. If you don't want to beat to death leave another player with few hp left. If he is normal, he will roleplay it as he was really badly injured. Anyway - i am sure that there must be a script solving that problem. Beaten to death - teleported, or have choice to lay down and wait for help. Not beaten to death - get up in 60 seconds. I find foolish to roleplay things, which can be made by script.
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Post by mingming on Sept 3, 2008 19:13:25 GMT -5
For Christ's sake... this entire PVP thread started because of PVP issues that needed resolving in terms of mechanics and DM adjudication. This resulted in a Knock-Out script being implemented as policy for the entire server in all cases of PVP, excepting cases of *MUTUAL CONSENTED* RP death/maiming for role-play's sake.
If you bothered to read this forum or this thread in its entirety, you would know this already. USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION. It should have come as no surprise to you that there is a 60 second KO as default. If you disagree with it, don't like it, or want it changed, then by all means bring it up as a respectful and civil topic of discussion to both the DM's and the playerbase. But don't troll and flame by finger-pointing and claiming someone was being unfair to you by NOT killing your character.
Honestly, you seem to be proceeding on a LOT of assumptions that stem from your own provincial perspective on how "things ought to be". Take 24 hours off. Read the forums CAREFULLY, and then consider how your own interpretations and opinions might not be the default in regards to how roleplay and friendly gaming here work. If you can take the blow to your pride, confess that you were hasty and leaped to conclusions, apologize if you offended anyone, and then move on. You'll gain more respect from others in the community by being circumspect rather than continuing to push an agenda and refusing to consider you might be mistaken.
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Post by Zealote on Sept 3, 2008 20:28:51 GMT -5
I find foolish to roleplay things, which can be made by script. Really? Then you dont like PnP D&D. Where the game fails to do the job, you should use your creativity and have fun. That's what RP is all about. I wont post again what i have posted before, and as you have read my previous posts, i totally agree with Ming. Now enough of this. Last post from me. Unless you want me to quote myself.lol Thanks -Raffael
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