jmlfoo
Member
"There's a crack in everything, thats how the light gets in." -Leonard Cohen
Posts: 47
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Post by jmlfoo on Aug 6, 2008 0:21:36 GMT -5
I am beginning to understand swanystyle's point. However if new alignment could be defined for Haydel, I would define him as "Stupid racist" (kind off champ that I witnessed, one who was killing NPC chickens and Jorn, and thought it would be evil). Haydel seems to be todays neo-nazi that has no capability to make any second thoughts or deeper thinking - I think this is just as bad as we-tolerate-anything society IRL. I am still trying to emphasize that would it be possible to tone down racism during the events? E.g. just insult other PC all you like but don't PvP? Throw dice or something... I don't care (Yeah, I know this sounds a bit stupid but I guess events should be a place where to judge characters you think evil - if they live up to reputation, they can always be hunted down after event). The PvP fight usually distracts from event, atleast I am distracted (well, I am easily distracted). And I hope Haydel and Gimli tries to attack Lemmar again
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Post by shawnystyle77 on Aug 6, 2008 0:39:33 GMT -5
I am beginning to understand swanystyle's point. However if new alignment could be defined for Haydel, I would define him as "Stupid racist" (kind off champ that I witnessed, one who was killing NPC chickens and Jorn, and thought it would be evil). Haydel seems to be todays neo-nazi that has no capability to make any second thoughts or deeper thinking - I think this is just as bad as we-tolerate-anything society IRL. I am still trying to emphasize that would it be possible to tone down racism during the events? E.g. just insult other PC all you like but don't PvP? Throw dice or something... I don't care (Yeah, I know this sounds a bit stupid but I guess events should be a place where to judge characters you think evil - if they live up to reputation, they can always be hunted down after event). The PvP fight usually distracts from event, atleast I am distracted (well, I am easily distracted). And I hope Haydel and Gimli tries to attack Lemmar again Ya, we knew we would get owned, but that isn't the point. And yes haydel is racist, but that is perfectly normal in this setting. He honestly believes what he does and thinks is right. And fighting side by side with a Drow is out of the question. I wish you would wear a helm, at least in large social settings. I mean technically, the iron throne wouldn't tolerate a Drow either. But when we lost, we got up and ran away, not get up and rebuff and try again. Honestly I didnt want the fight, cuz I knew we would lose, but when Amon said something about cutting Gimli's head off, we were kinda backed into a corner. Again, the goal isnt to pvp or grief players, it's to drive them off or force them to go incogneto(sp). I have a Drow, and I would feel a little bit cheated if everyone just accepted her? Hell, when she was level 1 she got picked up by the Fist and interrogated, I thought she was gonna get executed (permakilled), and honestly I would not have had a problem with that. Simply because it's accurate RP and it fits, plus she was only level one ;D Oh and don't worry haydel and gimli arent the sharpest guys around, but they are determined. I'm sure you'll have to teach em another lesson soon enough. But can you honestly tell me you did not enjoy thrashing them?
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jmlfoo
Member
"There's a crack in everything, thats how the light gets in." -Leonard Cohen
Posts: 47
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Post by jmlfoo on Aug 6, 2008 0:44:33 GMT -5
Ya, we knew we would get owned, but that isn't the point. And yes haydel is racist, but that is perfectly normal in this setting. He honestly believes what he does and thinks is right. And fighting side by side with a Drow is out of the question. I wish you would wear a helm, at least in large social settings. I mean technically, the iron throne wouldn't tolerate a Drow either. But when we lost, we got up and ran away, not get up and rebuff and try again. Honestly I didnt want the fight, cuz I knew we would lose, but when Amon said something about cutting Gimli's head off, we were kinda backed into a corner. .... Oh and don't worry haydel and gimli arent the sharpest guys around, but they are determined. I'm sure you'll have to teach em another lesson soon enough. But can you honestly tell me you did not enjoy thrashing them? Now you got me somewhat wrong I am not playing Lemmar, I am human fighter. But I honestly enjoyed when they got hurt - and yes you fleed, you has a good point there. Hmm... I think Lemmar had a hood, can't say for certain.
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Post by Iceshard on Aug 6, 2008 0:45:07 GMT -5
Shawnstyle is correct in his knowledge of the Forgotten Realms. This may be an RP lite server, but its still RP. What we as DM's and most players would like to see is that the UD Races, and Planetouched races be taken how they should in a social environment.
Under Dark Race- Hated, Feared, Mistrusted, Hunted down and Killed, Avoided altogether
Planetouched- Depending on origin either your amazed, in fear, in shock, halucinating, or feel unworthy to gaze upon such things.
This is how you will find it if you open any general players or dungeon master guide of DnD. Under the descriptions for such races you will find that many hate the above races, dont serve their kind in establishments, or hunt them down mercilessly. Elves especially should be on their own personal quests to hunt down and kill any drow they see.. they are the fallen, hated cousins and should be treated as such.
basically what we are trying to say is if you are RPing, STOP THINKING THESE RACES ARE OK! they arent, they should be avoided, killed, mistrusted, or worse, but deffinatly not befriended without damn good reason.
-Ice
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Post by shawnystyle77 on Aug 6, 2008 0:47:35 GMT -5
Shawnstyle is correct in his knowledge of the Forgotten Realms. This may be an RP lite server, but its still RP. What we as DM's and most players would like to see is that the UD Races, and Planetouched races be taken how they should in a social environment. Under Dark Race- Hated, Feared, Mistrusted, Hunted down and Killed, Avoided altogether Planetouched- Depending on origin either your amazed, in fear, in shock, halucinating, or feel unworthy to gaze upon such things. This is how you will find it if you open any general players or dungeon master guide of DnD. Under the descriptions for such races you will find that many hate the above races, dont serve their kind in establishments, or hunt them down mercilessly. Elves especially should be on their own personal quests to hunt down and kill any drow they see.. they are the fallen, hated cousins and should be treated as such. basically what we are trying to say is if you are RPing, STOP THINKING THESE RACES ARE OK! they arent, they should be avoided, killed, mistrusted, or worse, but deffinatly not befriended without damn good reason. -Ice ^^this^^
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Thief Of Navarre
Active Member
When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on!
Posts: 78
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Post by Thief Of Navarre on Aug 6, 2008 5:26:21 GMT -5
Is good damn reason the character's motivations or moral code? If a drow saves you from impending doom with no other motivation then to see you alive and well, would you still attack him, Quote; "DIE DROW, DIE TRAITOR DIE" < You know who you are! A couple of quote 'evil' races have shown me a lot more kindness then the self professed human paladin types. Is that grounds enough to cut them some slack or do they have to have holy sunshine coming out their ****? Im just wondering so I know whether or not I should attack any succubi high paladins of Tyr while im questing! (yes, im being fascious, but you can see my point!)
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Post by norikcain on Aug 6, 2008 6:29:14 GMT -5
You really shouldnt be forcing your rp onto others and ruining their game experience. We are all here to have fun. If you cant manage to do that without ruining someone elses fun, then maybe something is wrong? e.g you saying you are making it your personal mission to go after any race that "you" do not deem "fit". Rp only goes so far. Sounds more like you are trying to force people to rp how you think they should rather than how they want. As long as they rp within the confines of the rule, they shouldnt be forced to comply with your particular views of rp just because you like it that way. This is not "my rp" or "my lore"! Im not out to ruin anyones fun. Rather the opposite make the game fun. And I am by no means "forcing my RP" on anyone, this is the RP of the Forgotten Realms, I am merely adopting and complying to it. Drow are hated. Teiflings are mistrusted and thought to be part devil. God forbid I actually follow convention and freak out if I see a Drow or half demon! Or we can all just hold hands and power grind up to 30 and be bored... Who said everyone had to hold hands? You can still rp without making peoples gameplay hell. From your post it said you were making it your personal mission to make anyone who picks certain races that you do not agree with or did not rp that race properly, hell. Certainly sounds like you are trying to enforce rp on a rp lite server no? Rp this way or else? hmm so many choices to choose there.... Not saying anything wrong with rping hate towards them and suspicion etc etc, thats to be expected. But actively hunting them down whenever they log in etc would be a bit far Well unless theyve given reason to do so, like attacking everyone But just the way you stated it seemed to me like you were talking on a more personal level of making peoples game lives hell. Which would more likely drive people away as that is not "fun"
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radium
Active Member
... ON THE DARKNESS!
Posts: 169
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Post by radium on Aug 6, 2008 6:50:55 GMT -5
Shawnstyle is correct in his knowledge of the Forgotten Realms. This may be an RP lite server, but its still RP. What we as DM's and most players would like to see is that the UD Races, and Planetouched races be taken how they should in a social environment. Under Dark Race- Hated, Feared, Mistrusted, Hunted down and Killed, Avoided altogether Planetouched- Depending on origin either your amazed, in fear, in shock, halucinating, or feel unworthy to gaze upon such things. This is how you will find it if you open any general players or dungeon master guide of DnD. Under the descriptions for such races you will find that many hate the above races, dont serve their kind in establishments, or hunt them down mercilessly. Elves especially should be on their own personal quests to hunt down and kill any drow they see.. they are the fallen, hated cousins and should be treated as such. basically what we are trying to say is if you are RPing, STOP THINKING THESE RACES ARE OK! they arent, they should be avoided, killed, mistrusted, or worse, but deffinatly not befriended without damn good reason. -Ice Basically if you're going to play one, be mindful that other PCs will be mistrusting of you if you are a planetouched, and might even bear complete hatred to you if you are a drow. This is all RP. RP is in RP-lite is it not?
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jasonpauldegraaf
Senior Member
"There is a crack in everything God has made." -Emerson
Posts: 331
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Post by jasonpauldegraaf on Aug 6, 2008 7:56:43 GMT -5
If a drow saves you from impending doom with no other motivation then to see you alive and well, would you still attack him, Quote; "DIE DROW, DIE TRAITOR DIE" < You know who you are! A couple of quote 'evil' races have shown me a lot more kindness then the self professed human paladin types. Is that grounds enough to cut them some slack or do they have to have holy sunshine coming out their ****? If a drow or other UD race saves you from impending doom most likely the normal response would be something like fear ("What evils plans does it have for me"), a surface raid to capture ("It wants me for a slave") or to simply run away ("I'm getting out of here before it changes it's mind"). You need to get your mind past Drizzt and think along the lines of what would happen if a mind flayer saved your life (and the absolute absurdity that a mind flayer would save the your life!)? My toons would be outta there in a heartbeat before their brains get sucked. Or a beholder? Or a doppleganger? Drow are intelligent, evil being bent on destruction, manipulation, and domination. If a tiefling did the same, my toons would severely question his/her motives, possibly interact (if it appears very outsiderly they'd most likely run), but would not associate with him/her until after many more experiences showing that they are genuine, and even then may have to go out of their way not to be seen with him publically for fear of social rebuke. Many players instead of adapting the paradigm of Faerun will simply project their individualistic-21st-century-intense-over-tolerance-of-everyone onto the game world. It's cute and nice and very in line with our present day world, but it has next to no place on the Sword Coast.
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secretmask
Active Member
Retired Dungeon Master
Posts: 143
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Post by secretmask on Aug 6, 2008 8:31:42 GMT -5
Shawny makes a point, So does Norton.. The problem lies in the mind of each individual OOC, some dont click.. some do.. some like it like this, and some like that. If shawny goes and wacks a lvl 1 drow with his lvl 17 character its still Roleplay oriented.. Still theese actions culd collide with the other persons personal OOc feelings but that doesent matter really IC. Theese people shuld learn that it is Rp and nothing personal, still i loove the hostilety. but if someone is feeling crap about beeing taunted all the time, please make another build.. or patiantly wait for revange... i know i wuld.
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amwyth
Active Member
Posts: 80
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Post by amwyth on Aug 6, 2008 10:21:59 GMT -5
What is "individualistic-21st-century-intense-over-tolerance-of-everyone"? Over-tolerance? Just wondering.
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jasonpauldegraaf
Senior Member
"There is a crack in everything God has made." -Emerson
Posts: 331
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Post by jasonpauldegraaf on Aug 6, 2008 11:14:48 GMT -5
Meaning the modern paradigm (ie, way of thinking) in our world is 1) individualisitc (the individual is more important than the community, which was untrue before the Enlightenment perioed), 2) 21st Century (post-modern context and mindset), 3) Over-tolerance (meaning we're a people who do not judge or codemn. All are good regardless of the past mistakes of their fore-father and we should not judge them according).
Which is not the mindset of Faerun at all.
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amwyth
Active Member
Posts: 80
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Post by amwyth on Aug 6, 2008 11:23:02 GMT -5
I understand the words I don't understand how it is over tolerant. It's the over, as in 'too much' that I don't understand. It just sounded a bit like you thought that people were tolerated who shouldn't be tolerated. I'm sure you can see why this would be a concern.
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Post by shawnystyle77 on Aug 6, 2008 16:56:17 GMT -5
I understand the words I don't understand how it is over tolerant. It's the over, as in 'too much' that I don't understand. It just sounded a bit like you thought that people were tolerated who shouldn't be tolerated. I'm sure you can see why this would be a concern. Being tolerant is good by our standards. Being "over" tolerant is when tolerance is at fault. IE, giving a murderer another chance in the name of tolerance. By Faerun standards, being over-tolerant of a Drow for instance really means your a traitor to your own kind. If you see a bugbear or a troll or a Red Dragon you will run or kill it. There is no tolerance. It really has nothing to do with good/evil or nuetrality. IT has to do with enemy/ally. You do not tolerate your enemy. I'm a combat veteran and when i was deployed I did not concern myself with the moral compass of my enemy. In their mind they are doing right and serving Allah, in my mind I'm doing right and serving my country. I see them, they are not good or evil or deserving of a chance to explain themselves... they are the enemy. If I were to give them a chance, make friends and hang out with them, I would be a traitor to my men and a fool to the enemy who would probably kill me or use me for information. I have had people ask me about good drow, Drizzt. First off, your character doesnt know him. Secondly he is a legend and is still hated and mistrusted by surfaces and his own kind. That Drow you just bumped into on the road isn't Drizzt. Secondly he is still a drow and still doesn't trust you and will think you to be inferior even though he is good. Growing up in Faerun you would have heard, maybe even seen awful stories of drow raiding parties slaughtering and enslaving, that is what they do. Seeing one face to face would be like seeing the Boogie Man. Having a cup of tea and then going into a dark dungeon "exploring" with one is a terrible idea! Your char would have to be blind, insane or very very stupid to do such a thing.... this is "over" tolerance.
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Post by Repuls on Aug 6, 2008 20:24:38 GMT -5
Well I may not be as active on these forums as others but I have been on this server since day DOT. I have a lev 11 deep gnome who two days ago met Haydel. Whilst I was minding my own business killing treants, I was confronted, attacked and chased over two tranisitions until I logged. I understand the lore BUT I turned invisible and changed two areas still being pursued. Had I stopped and PMed I would have been dead.
This is ridiculous. And now this toon is useless on this server. Completely unfair when lev 20s attack without warning and no chance to escape, pick on someone your own size. I don't go killing other toons weaker than me without warning as I am sure most don't. Learn how to RP not just attack.
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