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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 15:15:49 GMT -5
Post by adzling on Feb 6, 2009 15:15:49 GMT -5
i do like the idea of some kind of penalty for dying in pvp.
i understand that it could cause issues but as it is you could die all day by inciting fights and incur no penalty whatsoever.
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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 15:34:35 GMT -5
Post by broham2 on Feb 6, 2009 15:34:35 GMT -5
Maybe full xp loss should be used on PvP. I can't really say I understand why there is no loss of anything in a PvP death?? People may think twice about PvP if standard death xp was applied. Because on the other hand, people may be a bit to willing to do PvP right now since there is no penatly at all. Not only the purposeful picking on the low levels, but the perfectly RP-justified killing of a lower level (like guild wars) I can only imagine that people wouldnt be such good sports about dying if they were being penalized for it. Not to mention the afore-mentioned subdual fights, i dont want to penalize someone's xp for knocking them out for being lippy. Either way, I'd prefer to work on the things that need changed as opposed to the things that have seemed to be working rather well. I'll shut up now.
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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 15:35:13 GMT -5
Post by Erulaan D'Anhoor on Feb 6, 2009 15:35:13 GMT -5
Please oh please confront my character in a beligerent manner...please....
Seriously. This server is lacking in edginees. PC's are way to comfortable with themselves.
of course I am quietly working on changing this
::wrings hands in evil anticipation::
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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 15:41:54 GMT -5
Post by Zealote on Feb 6, 2009 15:41:54 GMT -5
I am all in favor of PvP, specially with our rules. No xp, items or anything, except for 60 seconds of your game time are lost. That being said: I play Ujio, the guy that is always looking for a fight and Valek, a paladin. You can count in one hand the times that I have engaged PvP. And i play on this server since Beta 1. The first time i fought someone was with Valek, trying to arrest a drow. She was lvl 27 and I was lvl 16. I got killed in seconds (Like 10) and I was very happy with the situation. I knew I was doomed, but to RP a paladin is that. I had to engage her. How would I supposed to RP that situation without PvP, since she would not surrender(Question mark. My keyboard isnt working...). If my choice was to walk away, I would kill my RP as paladin. If my choice was to offer IC a way out for the drow, that would kill my RP as paladin. The PvP was the way out of the situation. My only available option was if the drow ran away. But of course she didnt, because she also knew she was going to win, but because the player was a good RPer. Of course im not in favor of people walking around and kill everyone that tells you to mind your business. And of course I agree that murderers should be arrested. Even if the kill was for a reason. A trial must take place if someone witnessed. But regarding RP, some situations lead to PvP. We all know what situations are those. Nobody here lives in a cave and has no contact with sociaty. The same rules that make you want to beat the crap out of someone in RL happen IG, but the difference is that in RL you have other rules and you dont live in medieval times or in the wilderness. But IG you do. People carry weapons and they are dangerous in most cases. Period. To act different than that is bad RP imo. Unprovoced PvP is a no no in my book also. Unless you know the player you're PvPing with. But provoced PvP is a yes yes. Its RP. If you feel like you have been PKed or the other PvP you without provocation, just use the thing we dont have in RL. SCREENSHOT. I play here a long time, I know that some guys are idiotic, or just kids playing a game for adults. (This is a adult game. Just because it doesnt have sex doesnt mean its for children). But they are rare and gladly, dont stay for long. But to send a tell OOC during a climax of RP to ask for PvP is annoying and lame imo. Im not here to change the rules, but it is. Last time I got wacked, I was with my Fist soldier, surrounded by bandits. While I was typind a tell, I got raped. I didnt compplain because it was obvious the direction of the RP. And in fact, the surprise was much better. I was not expecting, as my character shouldnt as well. If I had recieved a tell from the assassin moments earlier like: Im killing you now. I feel like it would ruin the moment. Thats all. But I knew it was coming. Im not dumb and I dont play dumb.
Zeal
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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 15:56:53 GMT -5
Post by DM Sin on Feb 6, 2009 15:56:53 GMT -5
Points dully noted everyone and yes, the rules do seem abit vague as everyone is debating about them.
Just to clarify - You should make the player aware that you intend to PvP OOC in a tell. This is not to exchange permissions - just to make the player aware and give them time to respond OOC if they are strongly against it ... more about that later.
No "Oh I'll just walk along this road" and then BAM, Fingered to Death (please dont look at that the wrong way ;D) by a uber player mage who was Hiding in Plain Sight and killed you from nowhere and for no reason.
PvP cannot be avoided if there is a legitimate RP reason to do so. However, if the player is completely adamant OOC that they do not want to PvP then it is not fair to force it upon them and in that situation the violence can usually be RP'ed out of.
This does not mean that this can be abused. If you are walking along a road and start mouthing off to a bunch of evil looking bastards in black robes and armour then you cant expect to send a tell saying "oh by the way, I'm not going to PvP if your thinking of attacking me" and not get what is coming to you.
Likewise, if a PC says something to your PC like "you dont appear to be THAT powerful to me" doesn't mean you can just instantly attack them with no warning. Just because your PC is a hard-ass and evil doesn't mean you should forget there are other players on the server besides you.
A more appropriate example would be:
*walking along a road two people bump into each other*
Wimp PC: Terribly sorry Sir Dude in Dark Armour: Watch your way boy, I outta cut your throat for being such an idiot Wimp PC: I am sorry, I will just get out of your way and no violence is needed
Player of the dude in dark armour sends a tell saying he is going to attack. Player of the wimp PC sends a tell back saying he really doesn't like fighting with other players. The other player aknowledges.
Dude in Dark Armour: Bah, you wouldn't even be worth the sweat *continues on walking*
If you feel that you were PvP'ed and shouldnt have been, then players need to send pictures and details of the event to the DM's and we will decide whether its worth looking into. But please guys, the staff are busy enough as it is and time shouldn't be wasted going over paltry things such as 60 seconds of humilty and a burned ego unless it is really warrated i.e. that Fingered to Death example at the top.
Whether PvP results in death or not doesn't matter. Just attacking someone is against the law unless it was in self-defense.
Hope that clarifies some things at least. All in all, just use your heads people and treat others with respect.
- Sin
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raenir
Senior Member
Smooching up to the Karma Lords
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Posts: 469
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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 16:11:50 GMT -5
Post by raenir on Feb 6, 2009 16:11:50 GMT -5
I disagree with "If your a Drow you auto consent to PvP" if your on the SURFACE yes, find thats common sense but when your in your own city of the tunnels just outside?
To clarify: For example a Deep Gnome Monk shouldn't be able realistically to murder everyone insight irregardless if the guards are only CR 5. That is Metagaming.
An example of when I generally dont like pvp is when I'm semi AFK standing on my perch on the Spire Stairway place "reflecting" I find it a tad uncool if someone decided to randomly shank me without some sort of rp reason to do ahead of time.
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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 16:21:10 GMT -5
Post by loudent2 on Feb 6, 2009 16:21:10 GMT -5
Many of the statements made on this thread seem to be made out of a sort of lack of imagination.
I mean it's a RP encournaged world right?
So, Ragnar the Barbarian is called yellow-bellied lover of misfit sheep and the response is to open up the player pane, set to hostile and click attack with his great-axe?
You have access to dice right? Why not:
Ragnar: *In a rage Ragnar reaches across the table in a attempt to grab the front of the insulter's shirt* You'll pay for that insult whelp! Insulter: *attempts to dodge out of Ragnar's grasp* -both make a dex roll -
It goes on from there. If the dex roll goes Ragnar's way he can do grapple check to hold the insulter and then emote pummeling them silly.
Think about how PvP is handled in PnP. If the insulter is not willing to RP it or is God-rping then you can ask a DM for guidance, or send the "/ooc Ok, if that's how you want it" and resort to actually clicking attack then.
Until the game supports subdual damage, actual physical attack and/or spell casting should be the last resort.
all this of course, is just my opinion.
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raenir
Senior Member
Smooching up to the Karma Lords
Quicken Disintigrate (Smile)
Posts: 469
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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 16:23:29 GMT -5
Post by raenir on Feb 6, 2009 16:23:29 GMT -5
I've seen some people do that, more common on necrosis where healing was more valuable. Be nice if we could hit for non lethal damage.
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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 16:28:27 GMT -5
Post by broham2 on Feb 6, 2009 16:28:27 GMT -5
But PvP is non-lethal.. you dont die.. you get knocked down and out for 60 seconds.
As for the UD, I think anywhere in the city proper or near the guards just outside would probably be fairly safe.. but in the UD you really should expect some RP PvP sometimes, as it is truly the nature of drow, especially given your position as the headmaster of a school of magic.
I dont see why anyone would create a character using a incredibly evil and debased race and not expect to RP out some conflict.
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raenir
Senior Member
Smooching up to the Karma Lords
Quicken Disintigrate (Smile)
Posts: 469
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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 16:33:09 GMT -5
Post by raenir on Feb 6, 2009 16:33:09 GMT -5
RP-PvP is fine, I thought we were talking about "oh hes a drow, attack right away without talking"? Or am I misunderstanding.
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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 16:52:14 GMT -5
Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Feb 6, 2009 16:52:14 GMT -5
RP-PvP is fine, I thought we were talking about "oh hes a drow, attack right away without talking"? Or am I misunderstanding. On the surface, that attitude towards drow IS part of the RP. ;D
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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 17:16:34 GMT -5
Post by broham2 on Feb 6, 2009 17:16:34 GMT -5
RP-PvP is fine, I thought we were talking about "oh hes a drow, attack right away without talking"? Or am I misunderstanding. What I was referring to was more: "Oh look there is a drow priestess. I worship Vhaeraun and wish death upon all Lolth-lovin tryants. I am going to kill her." I dont think an OOC tell should be mandatory here, or really an many other UD-on-UD instances. If you create a character in the violent world of the UD you should expect some carnage. A high ranking drow that lords his power over others and then hides behind the no-pvp clause is a type of metagamer, if ye ask me (and ye didnt, lol). If you are going to RP a drow I think you should RP all that comes with it.
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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 17:40:20 GMT -5
Post by loudent2 on Feb 6, 2009 17:40:20 GMT -5
RP-PvP is fine, I thought we were talking about "oh hes a drow, attack right away without talking"? Or am I misunderstanding. On the surface, that attitude towards drow IS part of the RP. ;D But that doesn't work unless it goes both ways. If being a drow on the surface is sufficient RP for an unsolicited attack then it is sufficient RP for the drow to initiate his own unsolicited attack. No, it is lethal damage. The fact that the "meta" results are 60 seconds downtime and 24hr no contact are inmaterial. Perhaps it's understood that the "killing" blow is held, but it is lethal damage none-the-less. And, quite frankly, the use of lethal force in response to a verbal taunt is, almost never, good RP. Especially the first of such insults. In almost ever novel I've ever read, even the most evil priestesses of Lloth will give a warning "Speak to me out of turn again and I'll use your re-animated tongue as a latrine scrubber" before killing for speaking out of turn. And most civilizations take a dim view of it as well. If you do it in view of the public (such as a tavern) you can expect to be thrown in jail for quite some time. My point is, on a RP-encouraged PW, there is almost no need for non-consentual PvP. Because: 1) It's rp-encouraged which means you don't have to RP, which means any inferred RP reasons for PvP may or may not have meaning to the person you're attacking. 2) It's rp-encouraged, which means you should, you know, *ROLE-PLAY* it out whenever the opportunity presents itself again, my opinion. YMMV
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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 17:50:33 GMT -5
Post by DM kelsfar on Feb 6, 2009 17:50:33 GMT -5
Talk of Drow and I am not putting my 2 cents in, lol well here's a dollar can I have 98 cents back . Anywho, I have signed up for pvp with my Drow's to be attacked without advance warning but maybe we need to have a special DM made thread for sign ups posted for all to have easy access to for those that consent to it, like where the threads are for character fixes etc.. I personaly agree that in UD pvp is a life style for Drow. Just think UD players that all this pvping against eachother only makes us stronger and more pvp capable with our characters for when the time comes to pillage Beregost lol. The only down side to the pvp rule for UD I know of is the ability to avoid the other player you pvp'ed against since UD is so small in comparison to the surface where its alot easier to avoid contact. Guess you just need to play ghost to the player that killed you till that person logs hahaha.
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Rule 8
Feb 6, 2009 18:53:22 GMT -5
Post by Zealote on Feb 6, 2009 18:53:22 GMT -5
In almost ever novel I've ever read, even the most evil priestesses of Lloth will give a warning "Speak to me out of turn again and I'll use your re-animated tongue as a latrine scrubber" before killing for speaking out of turn. I agree 100%. But if you continue your argument, what will happen if the one speaking out of turn dont shut up and continue with the insults...of course, the priestess will use his re-animated tongue as a latrine scrubber. But what happens when the one insulting, continues with the insults, even after the warning, and after you attack, he claims to be against the rules. But the bottom line is: I have yet to encounter someone who does that, RP the insulting one and then use the rule to avoid PvP. But I do know they exist. The point in my arguments is that your line of thought, the priestess drow and all, is the same of mine. Its a situation that leads to PvP if the insults dont stop after the threat to kill. And the player insulting the drow priestess cannot complain if he gets killed. The situation itself is consent to PvP. As I said. If you dont like to PvP, dont put yourself in the situation leading to PvP. If however the situation does not lead to PvP and PvP occurs, its unprovoked PvP. That is what I consider against the rules. Thats all.
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