lorgin2003
Senior Member
Dyn-o-miiiiite!!!
Posts: 373
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Post by lorgin2003 on Dec 22, 2008 23:16:23 GMT -5
well, to be honest, when it comes to the encounters, there is one shortcoming that i do see. it isn't so much of a group, but just a collection of individual monsters that happen to spawn close together. while this is good for the lower level areas, it produces the odd and mixed results we're seeing at mid and higher levels. while one class can tear through a specific monster, other classes can't.
let's use the goblins for example. while there are 3 types(elite, sappers and shamans), they're usually encountered one on one. instead, have them spawn in a group with at least one of each type in that group. basically, have them spawn as a party. the same idea can be applied all the way up into the epic levels. this way, the monsters don't have to be made too powerful for some classes so that they're a challenge to the others.
since the overall challenge of the group of normally built and equipped monsters will provide a better overall challenge to the playerbase as a whole than the single type of highly built up individual monsters, the death xp penalty will probably have to be lowered a bit. and once the loot system is in place, all the numbers should fall in line.
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Post by DM blessedone on Dec 22, 2008 23:31:36 GMT -5
I will ring in with 'it all depends on your build' as well, but will add to that with this......It depends on how you play your PC and knowledge of the PW as well.
I started Aiden (Human - Cleric/Warpriest), new to the world, lost as a pup and RP'd from the word go even though it was a 'RP Lite' server at the time. Later I did a combo of grinding and RP'ing in events and slowly moved to events more and more with him there for a while. He is not really a 'power build' and therefore did not level very fast even when grinding for coin.
Now, I am familiar with this PW and built a bit of a different PC to see how much power a 'RP' Cleric does indeed have versus Rogues and such and I must say.....I found that the new build blew through the first few levels without even dying but once. Aarmon's (Human - IB) AC/Damage is already near what Aiden's is unbuffed and will be matching Aiden fully buffed, if not go beyond that at higher lvls...Aiden is lvl. 18 and Aarmon is only 8. This should show that, it might be a combonation of Build and how you play your PC in terms of how fast you level.
I have seen personally a PC that was new to the PW on one day and within a few days was beyond Aiden.........How is this possible?
I have learned that, I can control how fast I level by not grinding and RPing a bit more and slowing the progression down a whole lot if I find that I, for my own taste, am leveling too fast. I tried that with Aiden to see how well I could earn xp without grinding and earned nearly 2 whole levels (Lvl. 16/17) by RPing and being a part of the world and events as I was either thrown into them or stumbled upon them.
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meldor
Senior Member
QC Team
Posts: 369
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Post by meldor on Dec 22, 2008 23:37:28 GMT -5
There some other things that probably can use some work to. The xp system currently re-wards soloing over grouping since XP tends to be much higher when your solo. Down the road it would be nice to see this reversed to encourage partying vs. solo play. I agree with that, I think you friends should inforce grouping and make soloing really hard.. past lvl 10. Grinding with a full group is fun when peoples RP etc and make it easier for DM to make event when they see a full group hunting together then 1 person alone grinding.. Like I said in another post there should be some positive or negative % of xp bonus per peoples in a group depending of their lvl.. exemple: if the average lvl of group is lvl 10 and you fight monster lvl 10 that give 100xp a kill.. you divide between the numbers of peoples in the group. let say 5. so you have 20xp per kill then for each peoples in the group you gain 5% bonus.. for everyone over lvl 10 it decrease the bonus by 1% per lvl and if you have someone higher then 5 lvl over the average lvl of the group the % decrease to -1% per lvl over 5. It's just an exemple, also I like the idea of group mobs, make it really hard for 1 person alone to kill them.
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Post by caveman282 on Dec 23, 2008 0:48:18 GMT -5
I think the grinding is a lil fast. People shouldnt be in high teens within a week or so. I also would like to see the lvling past 20+ to be dm granted /restricted/slower/ anything more than it is now. The rate at which xp is gained it makes it hard for DM s to plann anything challenging for the players. The death penalty is fine and not near as harsh as other places. Try other servers with 10% death penalty and less xp per kill RP xp past lvl 15 able to loose lvls past lvl 10 and you lose xp ,gold ,and an item from a death. I think if the xp was toned down and there was abonus to grouping that would encourage more players to group and RP while grinding.
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Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Dec 23, 2008 1:06:57 GMT -5
So basically what this whole thing boils down is a few things: I. - Player type: - heavy RPer
- RP/grinder
- Grinder
II. - Build type III. - Time spent online I think it's safe to say that because this is such a diverse server with all type of players, it's really impossible to determine if people are leveling too fast or not. What the server needs, really, is a definite clarification of what type it is, then go by the decision of the player base of that type. Otherwise it's just going to be a bunch of mixed answers and we won't really get anywhere from this. If leveling is sped up:RPers and occasional players will gain levels faster and be able to contend without spending an inordinate amount of time grinding. The downside is that instead of having three-day epics, we'll have a bunch of one-day epics running around the server. I cringe at the thought of that, both as a player and as a DM. If leveling is slowed down:RPers will have to spend much more time either grinding or just play more often and get lucky coming across events to level as fast as they do now. However, if you're an RPer, leveling shouldn't (in my opinion) be first priority. Development of character should be priority, and a slower leveling system will benefit this goal. I level slowly already, and this would knock it down quite a bit more, but I'd be more than happy with the decision if it goes this way. On the part of the power-levelers, we'll just see five-day epics instead of three-day epics. ;D * * * P.S. Some of the most fun I've had as a player has come from playing with level 1 PCs! Yes, you read that right! It's all about having fun, not having power!
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Post by highwayman on Dec 23, 2008 1:18:53 GMT -5
I didn't answer because I think it depends on two things.
Class and how friendly you are to the regulars. I completely re did glaran and have nearly caught back up within a few days but much of that had to do with the fact that it's near the holidays and I have had the spare time and I'm familiar with a few folks. (Also there has been a huge increase in new players lately)
My mage/priest on the other hand is half elf and the progression is slowed horribly when in a group.
It was my understanding that it was rp-lite and I do so when things slow down or the need arises in me. Walking from baldur's gate to beregost 8 times a day is beyond my patience. And i think the same can be said about grinding as well for other players.
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Post by DM Cephas on Dec 23, 2008 1:19:40 GMT -5
There is perhaps a difference between leveling slow and personally allowing your PC to level up slowly. I personally may be off but I interpreted the original post in the context of ability as opposed to self-constraint. I do concur though that it depends on the build but on the average, I do feel that leveling occurs too quickly. And the comment isn't to slight anyone or make anyone feel guilty. As mentioned by someone else, when you're getting 100xp a mob while soloing it only encourages soloing even more so. I'll put my support for systems that encourage parties (even party grinding) rather than solo grinding. This is because it adds more fun to the PW experience overall. I also support the grouping of mobs with diverse talents as well (this has happening more so and give a thumbs up to it ). It helps balance out the strength of any one build and will encourage parties. (Perhaps allow the first few levels to be solo-friendly and then progressively encourage the reliance on parties at the mid to high levels?) Also as mentioned by someone else, it makes it difficult for DM's to make challenging events when a quarter of the party is composed of epic level PCs. (For those who were in WWW's recent Thayan event, the undead dragon was buffed and modded but still had to be DM-healed numerous times to make it feel like an epic monster.)
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Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Dec 23, 2008 1:28:21 GMT -5
It was my understanding that it was rp-lite... <snip> Just for the record, the server is listed as either RP or RP-medium. I think it means the same thing whichever one you choose to call it.
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Post by highwayman on Dec 23, 2008 1:38:19 GMT -5
It was my understanding that it was rp-lite... <snip> Just for the record, the server is listed as either RP or RP-medium. I think it means the same thing whichever one you choose to call it. Ok. I stand corrected then. As a side note (not an advert believe me) I tried out abyssa for maybe a day, if folks are so concerned about how fast people are leveling I'd say go check it out and you'll see the complete extreme that the rp position can be taken. Daily melee xp caps result in, if the numbers are correct 1 year to hit 20. (dms are rarely seen there either)
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Post by shorn on Dec 23, 2008 2:19:34 GMT -5
There some other things that probably can use some work to. The xp system currently re-wards soloing over grouping since XP tends to be much higher when your solo. Down the road it would be nice to see this reversed to encourage partying vs. solo play. God yes...would someone PLEASE PLEASE implement party xp. Please God implement it. I like party leveling, questing, and such, but its not only not worth it, its detrimental to party, with the current system.
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meldor
Senior Member
QC Team
Posts: 369
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Post by meldor on Dec 23, 2008 2:22:02 GMT -5
So basically what this whole thing boils down is a few things: I. - Player type: - heavy RPer
- RP/grinder
- Grinder
II. - Build type III. - Time spent online I think it's safe to say that because this is such a diverse server with all type of players, it's really impossible to determine if people are leveling too fast or not. What the server needs, really, is a definite clarification of what type it is, then go by the decision of the player base of that type. Otherwise it's just going to be a bunch of mixed answers and we won't really get anywhere from this. If leveling is sped up:RPers and occasional players will gain levels faster and be able to contend without spending an inordinate amount of time grinding. The downside is that instead of having three-day epics, we'll have a bunch of one-day epics running around the server. I cringe at the thought of that, both as a player and as a DM. If leveling is slowed down:RPers will have to spend much more time either grinding or just play more often and get lucky coming across events to level as fast as they do now. However, if you're an RPer, leveling shouldn't (in my opinion) be first priority. Development of character should be priority, and a slower leveling system will benefit this goal. I level slowly already, and this would knock it down quite a bit more, but I'd be more than happy with the decision if it goes this way. On the part of the power-levelers, we'll just see five-day epics instead of three-day epics. ;D * * * P.S. Some of the most fun I've had as a player has come from playing with level 1 PCs! Yes, you read that right! It's all about having fun, not having power! 3 days epic I think you are kinding there.. we have lots of epic on server because it was easy to grind on kobolds prior the last update.. I doubt you will see soo many high epics players around now. Past lvl 20 the only place you can make xp is frost giants and most builds cant solo them unless you are a mage or a cleric/druid.
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atlas
Active Member
Posts: 177
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Post by atlas on Dec 23, 2008 5:41:16 GMT -5
I think the exp rate up until about level 24-25 for a non ecl character is good as it is. But my character is level 25 after 7 months and now I have hit a road block because there is nothing that will give me any exp and the mansion in which the Helmed Horrors are only level 15 or so still kick my arse. Frost Giants are about level 26 or so and are a royal pain for alot of people to kill and yet they only give me 12 exp or so. I dont see people gaining levels at a fast rate as annoying or insulting in any way because take TFR for instance, the leveling is masochistically painfull there and yet you still get people getting to level 18-20 in two weeks or so because they go at it all day long. Lowering the exp rate will always hurt the casuals more than the crazies.
As for the monsters being too easy? They're not, it's just some classes are immensely powerful and that is a different issue all together, theres a thread about it infact. I would hate to see this place go the way of TFR where they erase 'easy' level gains, except for the overpowered classes for which they have no answer for because their attempt at rectifying the situation was inherently flawed. Put everyone on a relatively even playing field first before you deal with exp rates and monsters being too weak.
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mrdeadman
Senior Member
I'll thank you to keep your reality out of my fantasy.
Posts: 308
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Post by mrdeadman on Dec 23, 2008 6:03:19 GMT -5
Way tooooooo fast. I like lots of different play style though. If it takes me eight days or eight months to get to level ten, either way is fine.
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Post by shorn on Dec 23, 2008 6:19:43 GMT -5
I find myself agreeing with Atlas, being from TFR myself, and seeing their ever so clever solutions to things, most of which involve household items, some superglue, and an IQ of less than 60
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Post by kendaric on Dec 23, 2008 7:31:25 GMT -5
Exp gain seems too fast to me, at least in the low levels. I'm used to a far slower level progression and admittedly would love to see the exp gain slowed down a bit. A slower exp progression has the added advantage that DMs get more time to interact with PCs and get to know them better. It also eases the addition of new areas throughout all level ranges without making new low-mid level areas completely useless.
It would be a good thing however to add an automated exp gain for RPing, the NWN1 server I used to play on had a system for that which worked quite well. Basically you'd get a small amount of exp whenever interaction between people took place in the "local" chat, in order to get exp from text emotes and talking you'd need to be in hearing range of others. While the exp gain was small, it provided a nice incentive for evenings spent around the campfire or in a tavern rather than hunting creatures for hours.
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