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Post by eggshen on Apr 25, 2009 14:21:05 GMT -5
By the way, I didn't say it WAS a vocal minority in the other thread, only that it might be. Which could explain why adzling was experiencing a very different response (for the most part) in game when roleplaying his toon than he was experiencing on the forums.
Lots of players don't even come here, and lots that do don't post, and then some who post aren't very persuasive (for whatever reason. . . persuasive writing is a skill like any other), etc. etc.
Forums are great tools, but if devs allow themselves to be swayed too much by the masses, well, let's just say I've seen a couple very good projects implode based only on forum drama. Not saying that would happen here.
Anyway, as for the poll's current results (26 voters) it does seem that most consider attacking a familiar should require following pvp rules. I'm fine with that as well, but I guess I just don't see the big deal. If you felt he didn't roleplay the situation, you're under no obligation to behave as if your familiar ever really died. It need not have any in-game effect (and the vast majority of the time it probably wont). And if you're such a hardcore roleplayer that you feel the need to find a new familiar after that, then I suspect you would appreciate the fact that another player is also such a hardcore roleplayer that they don't meta-game just to make sure your familiar is safe.
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Post by adzling on Apr 25, 2009 14:55:31 GMT -5
well eggshen that's the point of this poll, to determine how people feel about PvP and what constitutes it. While you and I (and a few others) may feel one way about 75% of the voters so far feel the other way and there in lies the reason for the initial discussion on the other thread.
People have different play styles, values, thoughts about their toons etc and when we all come together under one PW roof with little DM mediation it's up to us to resolve our differences in an adult manner so we can continue to have fun together.
Consider this poll as one mechanism for helping us understand one another better.
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Post by CrispyWalrus on Apr 25, 2009 15:24:53 GMT -5
If you felt he didn't roleplay the situation, you're under no obligation to behave as if your familiar ever really died. It need not have any in-game effect (and the vast majority of the time it probably wont) Done when someone is facing mobs could have a very serious in game affect. Losing 2 points of CON could mean 10-20 HP (or up to 30 if it's a beetle) to a level 10 Wizard for instance. As for not behaving as if something died from PvP that is easier for a familiar than one's own character I suppose. It really starts to strain the disbelief after a while if you keep running into your "killer" (or someone you "killed") on the server which given the relatively small playerbase is a very real possibility. LOL if there was not RP leading to it, then yeah, that would not be good form in my opinion. Good point. Surprise can be fun but PvP for no reason but to PvP is not. It is actually quite exciting and suspenseful to have another player emoting their stalk but not knowing when and what will happen. I'd much rather see well done RP where another character has taken the time to disguise their PC through clothes or a spell effect so that they are not recognizable after the fact and then RP that they leave another PC for dead, thus allowing the certain recovery to be much less miraculous than trying to RP PvP death.
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mute83
Active Member
Posts: 196
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Post by mute83 on Apr 25, 2009 16:48:36 GMT -5
how i see it is. if you dont have PvP rules. it might end up like WOW. where people run around killing lower level people. gank. using bad RP for killing etx. i which it wouldnt be like that, but my guess it would. or fear it would end up like that
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Post by borton on Apr 25, 2009 17:18:48 GMT -5
i don't mind pvp i like giving consent first but as a fist i'm used to it but it gets relay old fast and when you can't do any thing about it (assassination attempt) but pvp is all ways mostly one sided their for i see the rules as necessary. I hate to be in a battle and some one comes up to you hay pvp and the npc kills you be for the player dose and you lose all that xp
i and i relay don't understand the poll results eater needs clarification
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Post by inquizitor on Apr 25, 2009 18:04:01 GMT -5
Well the answer to voids scenerio is simple. Penalize the player who is metagaming HARD. I would concider such actions to be as outrageous as someone who attacks you without provocation and/or warning. This goes both ways folks. The PW I came from had open PvP. It also had a staff that was willing to enforce RP. IT also had an actual death penalty that was severe. So if you chose to just attack someone because you are evil and Lost. Welcome back to level 8 assumign a DM didn't decide that the fight was epic enough to bestow permadeath on your villain. Not that that didn't go the other way either. The good guys had to deal with severe penalties as well as the possibility of Permadeath. You would be suprised at how well you can enforce reasonable behavior on yourself when faced with possibly losing your character.
I love PvP. I think great stories can be had in PvP. Hell. I've had a blast my first few days on the server partially because of the villain Flail. I also think that the Game engine does not make for the best first choice for good PvP. Some of the best PvP scenes I have ever seen were RPed out.
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Post by luskan79 on Apr 25, 2009 18:08:56 GMT -5
Having played ultima online, shadowbane and the like i love pvp. The unknown is what makes it great on those games lost gear exp gold most everything. Lose nothing here i do not see what big deal is. I played on rp pvp servers in those games btw.
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Post by merctroop on Apr 25, 2009 21:52:31 GMT -5
Nwn2 can't be considered a valid form of PvP. I say this as some one who has played and still does play pvp games. Guild wars, star craft, war craft 3, exteel, list goes on and on. Nwn2 lacks any sense of balance for pvp, at best I'm in favor of keeping balance and tactics for builds. Meaning no immunity items or stacking of a specific skill to give certain groups advantages.
Just looking at the mechanics of the game, it will drastic changes just to bring classes with some sort of balance. Starting with the bugs obsidian never fixes.
The server is about character on character conflict. Goal is not to surprise a player, but have IC fights between PC's. Which is why I believe its good to always ask some one before you do some thing hostile against them. Covering pick pocketing, attacking some one because your PC got pissed, or putting them in a situation that will dramatically alter their rp.
That isn't considering all the times I'm talking on aim or watching a movie while I Rp or hunt.
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Post by eggshen on Apr 26, 2009 2:33:36 GMT -5
well eggshen that's the point of this poll, to determine how people feel about PvP and what constitutes it. While you and I (and a few others) may feel one way about 75% of the voters so far feel the other way and there in lies the reason for the initial discussion on the other thread. People have different play styles, values, thoughts about their toons etc and when we all come together under one PW roof with little DM mediation it's up to us to resolve our differences in an adult manner so we can continue to have fun together. Consider this poll as one mechanism for helping us understand one another better. I know. And I get it. And as I said I have absolutely no problem following the pvp rules when it comes to summons/polymorphs/etc. In fact, I would never have made a leathal move on the familiar myself, even if it were super-duper in character, simply because I know how people get. But hard and fast rules have a way of being lawyered quite often, and I'd rather see the spirit of the law enforeced, rather than the letter. @ Crispy, I know what happens when a familiar is killed. That's why I keep mine safe. If I have him out, I know that an npc or a pc could take exception to it. The lowest level enemy in the Underdark is a bat. My familiar is a bat (chosen partly for powergaming reasons and partly because it fit so well with the setting). I would never pull it out and not expect the people who inhabit the underdark to hate it, since they probably experienced much trauma at the hands of the very same bats at one point in their existence. I guess Dog will need to spend time sending OOC-tells to people asking them if he can take a swipe at their critter. What will be interesting is the OOC response you get. . .
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Post by biohazard89 on Apr 26, 2009 2:37:23 GMT -5
Well from my experiences...when there is loose PVP rules...there is bound to be tons of PVP going with little to no IC reason behind it at all..just the other day i got attacked by some player and when i asked OOC'ly if he could leave me alone because i was new and at least 8-10 lvls above me..You know what response i got?
** HAH noob get lvls you dumbass now die **
It wasnt a good first impression of players onn this server.
I prefere RP fight over PVP fights any day...in general im against Loose rule PVP...such things dont belong on an RP server in IMO
There has to be strict rules of PVP to avoid the Older players abuseing the newer ones.
Like Put on hostile at least 3 seconds before you attack. Ya know common curtesy and sense.
Anyway that was my two cents.
Best Regards Biohazard89
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mute83
Active Member
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Post by mute83 on Apr 26, 2009 2:49:35 GMT -5
Well from my experiences...when there is loose PVP rules...there is bound to be tons of PVP going with little to no IC reason behind it at all..just the other day i got attacked by some player and when i asked OOC'ly if he could leave me alone because i was new and at least 8-10 lvls above me..You know what response i got? ** HAH noob get lvls you dumbass now die ** It wasnt a good first impression of players onn this server. I prefere RP fight over PVP fights any day...in general im against Loose rule PVP...such things dont belong on an RP server in IMO There has to be strict rules of PVP to avoid the Older players abuseing the newer ones. Like Put on hostile at least 3 seconds before you attack. Ya know common curtesy and sense. Anyway that was my two cents. Best Regards Biohazard89 it is in the rules. if you read them, and apparently he hasnt either. 8. If your going to get into Player vs Player for ANY reason, be it racism, threats, ANY sort of conflict, offer them an OOC out of the situation, its ok to warn them that the next conflict is unavoidable, we dont want to limit RP but consideration should be used. 9. Some people don’t like PVP period and are uncomfortable with it, if someone says they don’t like PVP do NOT force it on them, forcing PVP on someone who told you they don’t want it is very bad.
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Post by CrispyWalrus on Apr 26, 2009 5:39:16 GMT -5
I guess Dog will need to spend time sending OOC-tells to people asking them if he can take a swipe at their critter. What will be interesting is the OOC response you get. . . I don't think he needs to even go OOC-- maybe just more elaborative RP than one word prior to attacking-- ie. drooling, thinking out loud, rubbing his stomach or it making hunger noises... that sort of thing is all that is needed to give the other player some heads up and a chance to have fun with and add to the RP.
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Post by thevoid on Apr 26, 2009 9:17:36 GMT -5
So just because of a few we should punish the many who do things as responsible and mature people? Frankly speaking, the DM's know who is an asshat already i'm very sure of that. And if such an asshat exists and persistently gets complained about, they will be most likely removed. There is such a thing as a "ban" button. As I said earlier, I've never came across a player that stupid to actually Download all the files for the PW (a huge amount of time), Place all the files in each corresponding folder, Generate a character on server that has rules against powerbuilding, levels to near epic (assuming you grind it takes at least 2 months with no DM events), and then run around pwn'ing for no reason, then risk getting permanently banned...... See how ridiculous this is? It's just you all are paranoid about the possibility which is statistically marginal.
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Post by broham2 on Apr 26, 2009 9:57:25 GMT -5
Yeah void, thats exactly it... this is all just a paranoid delusion for those of use that have experienced people going outside of the established rules.
Can you contribute at all to the purpose of the thread, ie. what constitutes PvP on this server, or would you like to continue your rants about how you think the world works?
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Post by inquizitor on Apr 26, 2009 12:23:07 GMT -5
I guess Dog will need to spend time sending OOC-tells to people asking them if he can take a swipe at their critter. What will be interesting is the OOC response you get. . . I don't think he needs to even go OOC-- maybe just more elaborative RP than one word prior to attacking-- ie. drooling, thinking out loud, rubbing his stomach or it making hunger noises... that sort of thing is all that is needed to give the other player some heads up and a chance to have fun with and add to the RP. Especially when you just arrive in a crowded area with 15-20 people all talking at once. It seems to me people are far to willling to clock that attack button before doing any real RP at all. The attack button does not equal RP. It is a means of resolving RP that has already happened.
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