Suggested fix for Stormlord

[baldursgateway]

I know a lot of people around here have said Stormlord's are too good (and I agree), and I see far too many of them really. When I rolled up my Cleric of Talos (first character here) I thought I'd be rare: WRONG! Anyways, due to the popularity of the class, and it's inherent overpoweredness (boosting Clerics beyond what they already have at no penalty is scary) I had a suggestion for a possible fix for them that is probably really easy to code in and very simple: have them only get spell progression every even or odd level like Warpriest. Stormlord would still be a strong class, but this would hopefully reduce the number of Stormlord's from "every cleric/druid I see" to something manageable.

[mingming]

Why do people get the idea this class is supposed to be rare?

And while SL's are good, they give up Turn Undead progression for what they get. So I wouldn't say they get something for nothing. Combined with pre-reqs and the focus they have, there's nothing wrong with their innate power level.

I still don't get why people think this is supposed to be rare class though, it belongs to one of the major faiths of the Realms. *shrugs* Besides, as posted in both the RPGA and the Wizards site, it's appropriate for other weather/tempest based clerics such as Umberlee. Given that NWN2 is limited in the tools people have to make their concepts compared to PNP, why punish them for playing concepts?

[steelforgedsword]

I suggest rule # 26, no more threads about Storm Lords.

[baldursgateway]

I play one (my highest level on this PW) so don't take this as whining, I'm simply suggesting a way to balance out their powerful traits. The feats they have to take don't really merit the power they get when compared to any other prestige class (except RDD maybe), considering they give up nothing other than said feats (which aren't a waste anyways) to be a Stormlord. I notice you reference the large amount of whine threads/posts made about Stormlords, my post is simply a reflection of the reason for this, and rather than whining I'm suggesting a way to remedy a lot of the problem with them.

In the PnP campaigns I have played, the rule was a Stormlord was a follower of Talos who survived being struck by lightning. This is where the rarity comes in, not every follower of Talos is struck by lightning and lives. Furthermore, rarity on a PW like this is subjective to the amount of Clerics there are: and if you'll note something like 50% of the Clerics (and druids) I see running around are Stormlords.

Finally, I'm not saying remove the class or anything remotely like that, but I'd say taking off some caster levels would balance out this class. I'm personally just tired of seeing EVERY cleric or druid as a Stormlord, I love the class and would just like it to be an option and not something everyone does for the power and doesn't RP it well - a good example being the countless good Stormlords I see on a daily basis (I've seen some almost Paladin like SL's).

[Zealote]

The good SL are from the Shocking Spear Guild. We are here to save you. Fear not. "Come with me if you want to live!" is our favorite line.

*Mutters a prayer to Torm and waits for the lightning to come from the clouds and imbue his spear with nasty dmg*

;D

[Shadoril]

Pure clerics get: Tower shields which is a massive AC bonus. Free Keen if they use a blunt weapon which Storm Lord's don't get because they use spears. The Turn Undead progression... As far as I'm concerned if someone wants to really powerbuild, you can't stop them by just nerfing a good prestige class.

Now what would be really imba is if storm lord's got high BAB progression as well...

[baldursgateway]

Apr 6, 2009 23:58:56 GMT -5 Shadoril said:

Pure clerics get: Tower shields which is a massive AC bonus. Free Keen if they use a blunt weapon which Storm Lord's don't get because they use spears. The Turn Undead progression... As far as I'm concerned if someone wants to really powerbuild, you can't stop them by just nerfing a good prestige class.

Now what would be really imba is if storm lord's got high BAB progression as well...

You can still use a tower shield and monkey grip that spear can you not? Which is what I see everyone doing.

On the part of Undead, I've only seen a handful of UD monsters so far, so I'm totally indifferent on the turning thing at this point. However, I am dying to make a Doomguide when SoZ stuff becomes available and make him an all out Undead killer. Are there many zones with Undead in them on this PW? I haven't seen them yet.

[hnefi]

There are only two zones with undead in them, as far as I'm aware. But even if the PW were crawling with them, turn undead is a worthless ability. Its main use is fueling divine might/divine shield.

[steelforgedsword]

Apr 6, 2009 23:45:09 GMT -5 Zealote said:

"Come with me if you want to live!" is our favorite line.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA.

God I hate Storm Lords.

[mingming]

Apr 7, 2009 1:09:49 GMT -5 hnefi said:

There are only two zones with undead in them, as far as I'm aware. But even if the PW were crawling with them, turn undead is a worthless ability. Its main use is fueling divine might/divine shield.

I don't know about that.

A high charisma, full Turn progression, and the Sun or Evil domains make Turn Undead really attractive for me as a player. I've played a lot of TU intensive characters before and people who scoff at the ability generally just aren't willing to invest the stat scores and/or feats into an ability that makes a cakewalk out of a chunk of opposition.

Imagine a TU effect that drops outsiders like tieflings, gith, devils, demons, and so forth; all in a mass wave. Or seeing vampires and even nightstalkers keel over afer a good TU roll. Properly built, a cleric who builds "wide" along his class abilities is a very powerful force on the generalist battlefield. This isn't even counting the kind of effects that creative use of Divine Feats can accomplish in tandem.

In the end, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think that a perspective that examines all possibilities for cleric abilities and what you gain versus give up when taking a prestige class is important. I'm not saying a SL isn't attractive, but I am denying that it isn't lacking in certain departments, and definitely does not put a base cleric to shame in a general build sense.

[mute83]

just a side note.
is it true that there are good talossans out there. because the is just wrong. thats just an excuse to take a powerfull class, and not RP it the real way. I see 2-3 options for the good talossan/stormlords.
1: the get banned from the deitie, and stripped of their powers (the mild one)
2: they get killed by talos (a DM) (perma death)
3: they are hunted by the real talossans, and proberly killed when caught (perma death)

and i have yet to see people praise talos and his destruction.

DOGMA: Life is a combination of random effects and chaos, so grab what you can when you can, because Talos may take you to the afterlife at any moment. Preach the might of Talos, and always warn others of the forces only he can command-- the fury of all Faerun. Walk unafraid in storms, forest fires, earthquakes, and other disasters, for the power of Talos protects you. Do so publicly whenever possible, so that others see that only Talos can protect them. Make others fear Talos by showing the destruction he and his servants can cause. To avoid tasting his fury, pray to him energetically and tell all folk that such observances-- and only such observances-- can protect them from the furies of gales, hailstorms, winds, floods, droughts, blizzards, hurricanes, and other natural dooms. Hurl such forces at one's foes if Talos deems a place or a person worth defending. One cannot afford to ignore Talos, but must bow down and worship him. Proclaim this message to all and show everyone the destruction even the slightest of the servants of Talos can cause.

[Jerick Silverkin]

Wow, some great statements there mute83, and OP (and some others).

I will actually be redoing my character for RP reasons, but that's beside the point.

My recommendation for this SL bit... don't know if it's possible though due to limitations:

For Stormlord (PnP) like has already been said, you must be struck by lightning and live... a seemingly rare occurance. Is there away to make this a feat of sorts to be awarded by DM's? This feat would be a requirement for "unlocking" Stormlord... (you know... the way it actually is supposed to be).This would also allow the DM's to used thier judgement as to who true Tallasans are (so people that actually RP it get this "reward" of SL) and the ones that just want a powerbuild... DON'T get it.

The thing is Stormlords are supposed to be powerful even overpowering. Talassans aren't rare, but the "chosen few" Stormlords are. But as stated before by others, few RP this well (my char included, but read his [lame] biography for the reasons for it).

So what I'm saying is don't nerf it... actually enforce the requirements. Person RP's it well and servives getting struck by a DM-lightning bolt (what's that a reflex save?) BAM! You may now be rediculously powerful since you are truly a Stormlord... or a heap of ash. What... are you a pretender? Still want to be a Stormlord? Alright... BAM-ZAP! Oh... looks like ya didn't make the cut (DM-bolt-of-nosaves/resistance-permadeath-chorttledom-DOOM!).

---Just my dime with 80% depreciation---

Oh, and building on mute83's statements:
False followers could be killed by that lightning or whatever by the DM. Perma-death at descretion. Ya want chaos... I'll show you chaos (points at some DM's).

[glow=red,2,300][modified post][/glow]
If a feat like that can't implemented, I'd have to agree with something along the lines of slower spell progression. I stick by the feat idea only because you can *still* get to lvl 30 and have a powerbuild even with slower progression. All they need to do is buff after all. You know they aren't casting offensive spells.

[adzling]

"Why do people get the idea this class is supposed to be rare?"
Because you are meant to have survived being struck by lightning mingming.
GAH@!

"Given that NWN2 is limited in the tools people have to make their concepts compared to PNP, why punish them for playing concepts?"

Because you end up with Stormlords of LOLTH for chrissakes!
GAH@!

it is almost universally agreed except by those few "dont take away my prestige class" types that stormlords in nwn2 are overpowered due to the lack of RP restrictions that should accompany the class.

i agree with the OP that spell progression should be moved to every odd level AND stormlord = talos should be enforced.
and it's worth noting the that OP IS A STORMLORD.
so kudos to you for manning up and noting what you see from your own perspective.

you will find that people who are against power restrictions of overpowering classes will come up with the standard straw man argument "D&D cannot be balanced".
Another favorite one is "oh noos they take this away then they come for your PRC" argument which i would say is also a straw man argument.

Both are bogus arguments usually presented by hopelessly infantile powergamers OR people who want the freedom to build odd-ball toons without understanding the problems it creates for the rest of the community on a PW.

These arguments are irrelevant, you CAN curb the worst excesses to ensure relevance for classes.

karma to the OP for this thread.

[DEV Jlf2n]

This is something we have been talking about for a while. The OP actually has our conversation pretty dialed in with what we have planned or what we are planning at least.

[steelforgedsword]

Any 2nding for my rule 26 proposal?

Anyone?