broham1
Senior Member
QC Team - Karmic swing
Posts: 386
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Post by broham1 on Feb 16, 2009 23:04:56 GMT -5
Keep in mind the people who are making fun of others for requesting a lower level DC are *cough* epic PCs. However, places such as the Temple of Bhaal are meant for lower levels. I'm not making fun man...you should watch the wild acusations...All I was saying is that if the DC's are lowered they will be easier to collect and cash in thats all...Geez...I feel for the guys gettin killed by the traps...Durak wasn't epic when the first traps went in..and some of them were DC40+ (Iron Throne). I saw the fugue a couple times...but instead of saying they should be lowered I went out and put some experience under my belt and came back. I don't agree with the traps in the lowbie areas being so hard but to lower the DC's across the board would ruin the immersion....IMHO...  EDIT: There is a ring, a belt and lockpicks at your disposal. (And a backpack too I think) Together they give you a hell of a boost... 2nd EDIT: Keep in mind that traps are where RP and grinding collide. The grinder wants to run around killing, hence setting off the traps. The RP'r will walk with search activated and only advance 5-10 feet at a time so the traps have plenty of time to show their nasty face. The only way you will set off a stack is if you walk over them...If you are trying to disarm and get a critical failure it will only set off that trap NOT the stack. (Not that I think they should stack that deep, but a few is cool with me) |
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Post by Forumlord of Talos on Feb 17, 2009 1:37:35 GMT -5
I too put plenty of skill into disabling traps. Some of those points were at the expense of other rogue skills. In no way were eitehr Durak or I mocking anyone. I believe traps should reflect the area they are found in as well as the value of the treasure they gaurd.
I can't see a first lvl rogue being very good at the skill and one would be about 3rd level by the time they actually start finding ones that are not on chest in the bandit caves.
IMO the DC of the traps should be roughly 10-15 points higher then the skill level of a rogue who has maxed his ability and whose level is comparable to the area the trap was found. I say this becasue trap removal even for a skilled theif should be something that strikes a bit of a nerve and brings to question the OMG we are gonna die impression if one fails
" now was it the blue wire first or the red one"
Life is a gamble folks...SNIP....
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Igaryu
Senior Member
Posts: 366
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Post by Igaryu on Feb 17, 2009 2:22:15 GMT -5
Gotta disagree there, I believe it should be impossible to collect these higher level traps but it should still be not too much of a danger to get rid of the trap by disabling them.
I mean where is the point of taking someone that is supposed to be able to take care of traps in a dungeon if that someone is scared for his live for even touching the traps;)
Especially with all around spawning bandits or other opponents it doesnt seem right that these traps should be so incredibly hard that even a rogue has to fear for his life.
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Post by hnefi on Feb 17, 2009 3:09:06 GMT -5
Agreed with Igaryu. If no one of appropriate level can disable the traps with relative ease, then the traps stop becoming a hurdle and start becoming a brick wall (or a pointless nuisance that you can't do anything about anyway).
Also, rogues gaining gold from traps should be a concern. It's no biggie as long as its minor traps, or when there were only a few of them, but now that the traps respawn I think many of them should not be recoverable. I've seen the economy of an entire server go down the drain entirely because of trap recovery.
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Post by Forumlord of Talos on Feb 17, 2009 7:11:20 GMT -5
finding +3 items in chest does far more to hamper the economy of the server then selling traps,
also placing the DC at 10-15 points higher then the rogue base skill level for the area is realistic .Remember the DC attempt to remove the trap is your skill level plus a d20 roll. You should not be able to walk up and automaticaly remove a trap placed that you yourself didnt place. Even for a rogue should be some what wary of failure. A rogue who wishes to specialize in traps will seek out proper gear to cover that 10-15 point difference thus minimizing his chance of failure.
Also keep in mind that if disabling a trap is a 10-15 point risk recovering that trap would be a 20-25 point risk without proper gear.
Seems fair to me
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Igaryu
Senior Member
Posts: 366
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Post by Igaryu on Feb 17, 2009 7:36:21 GMT -5
mmh Grc Sorry but I still dont agree my rogue I had was maxed out on disable device and I must admit I didnt have any gear to support that skill but still if I tried to disable a normal trap back then I had a very high chance of it blowing in my face. This is totally fine with me as it is much more difficult to get these traps out there functionally rather then just disabling it no matter how.
But if I imagine a regular rogue having the same problem with a trap that will pretty darn sure kill him if he fails just sounds totally wrong sorry.
Its ok if it has a decent chance to blow in someones face that only has the skill as crossclassskill but for someone that is supposed to know his business it is just pure nonesense.
That is my opinion and I will not state it again;)
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Post by Forumlord of Talos on Feb 17, 2009 10:40:09 GMT -5
Igaryu,
So I can have a better understanding of what you are seeing can you give me a little info here
What is your Rogues lvl and what is his disable device skill level without gear ??
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Post by DEV Jlf2n on Feb 17, 2009 11:27:51 GMT -5
The traps are really buggy. They will be coming out tonight. Hopefully Driller can find a fix for them soon. But for sure I know what you guys mean. I stepped on a Average trap expecting minimal damage and was hit with about 20 at one time.
Oh the good times.
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Post by luna on Feb 17, 2009 12:46:12 GMT -5
Also, rogues gaining gold from traps should be a concern. It's no biggie as long as its minor traps, or when there were only a few of them, but now that the traps respawn I think many of them should not be recoverable. I've seen the economy of an entire server go down the drain entirely because of trap recovery. I guess nobody noticed the traps that used to sell for a lot don't anymore. Thats good..  |
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Igaryu
Senior Member
Posts: 366
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Post by Igaryu on Feb 17, 2009 13:10:13 GMT -5
Hey Crush I dont play my rogue atm but I can just do the math if you want;). He is level 7 so that would make a natural 10 on the skill as I maxed it plus the 3 bonus from my 16 or maybe with gear +4 with bonus from my dexterity so that make it 14 one less maybe but not much more.
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Post by Forumlord of Talos on Feb 17, 2009 17:09:17 GMT -5
Ok Igaryu
A 14 remove device on a level 7 rogue IMO should be frequenting places like the bugbear caves as his high end. Thus what I am saying is traps in the bugebar cave should then be about a DC 24 to disable. Without any special gear that would mean that your chance to remove it on an attempt would be 50/50 basically and your chance of critical failure would be only if you roll a 5 or less. meaning then you take damage. With gear that gives +5 to your skill you would then never risk critical failure though you could still fail to remove it on an attempt
Doesnt that seem fair or where you thinking more like the DC check in the comaparable areas would bne equal to the skill thus having 0 chance to fail? A DC 14 trap seems pretty low to me just my opinion
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Igaryu
Senior Member
Posts: 366
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Post by Igaryu on Feb 21, 2009 3:24:29 GMT -5
Well I think the check for disabling should not have a chance to critically fail. That's all but if I only had to roll a 5 that sounds pretty good but in reality it is still 20% critical failure chance but as I understand you it is only for trying to collect them right?
If so I dont mind of having them blow up in my face with a 20% chance.
Thing is we werent talking about the normal traps but the ones that were only there for one evening and these would easily kill a full hp char in his early levels which didnt seem fair but the prob was solved a while ago anyways;)
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Post by Vard Stoneguard on Mar 30, 2009 11:13:00 GMT -5
Traps are way overboard. Unless you are playing a rogue then what's the point?
We are left with very few choices, and I don't like any of them.
1. Take levels in rogue (I did, no help yet, just ruined my build)
2. Travel with a rogue (I am LN so that don't seem feasable)
3. Only play outdoors.
4. Not play (really don't like this idea)
This has been an enjoyable PW to play in, but the fun is disappearing quickly when at 13th level I can not go into a dungeon. I am even running into trapped remains with pretty high damage.
Almost half the doors are trapped. 90% of chests are trapped. Floor traps and remains getting trapped?
Almost every dungeon/ cave is better fortified than any thieves guild.
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Post by broham2 on Mar 30, 2009 12:12:42 GMT -5
Think of it this way.. if you were a 13th lvl rogue everywhere you went there would be mobs you couldnt fight alone. Mobs in the outdoors, mobs in dungeons, mobs even guarding the chests!!! We could either travel with a fighter, add fighter levels, or not play.
We all have our strengths and weaknesses. While some of the traps may be overboard as far as stacking, etc.. those are bugs being worked out.
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Igaryu
Senior Member
Posts: 366
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Post by Igaryu on Mar 30, 2009 12:16:57 GMT -5
Hehe kind of agree right now I am playing a rogue mainly and my disarm skill is nearly maxed(not gearwise) and still many of the traps I just have to hope that I evade there effects;) especially the DC 32s that I found in allmost every dungeon now;)
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