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Post by broham2 on Feb 4, 2009 20:34:33 GMT -5
I just don't get it. The Fist recently raided the thieves/assassin's guildhall... which is all well and good and a fun activity for them... but the logical reaction to that action would be to step up the attacks on the Fist (among general guerilla tactics). Now the attacks have ramped up and it sounds to me like most people are calling foul.
What would you have the evil-doers do if not doing evil? What is the point of playing evil when you get all sorts of gruff when you RP evil?
It's been said here plainly that the Fists are an RP guild and that by putting on the uniform you consent to PvP. If that needs to be changed then surely it would be easy enough to do, right?
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Post by drachii on Feb 4, 2009 20:43:40 GMT -5
In the interests of pure mischief I'd be amused if someone made a script that spawned 3 fist when a patrolling fist NPC died. And 3 more for each of those spawned fist. And 3 more for each of the 9 spawned. And.... Snowballing fist bundle  |
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thegnomeherder
Senior Member
Bhaal, the Lord of Gettin' sum
Posts: 356
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Post by thegnomeherder on Feb 4, 2009 21:12:50 GMT -5
First off I don't see how the Flaming fist is supposed to be this all powerful all seeing and knowing force of death to evil doers. As far as I'm concerned the fist aren't even good guys.
When I played Baldur's Gate 1 I took every oppertunity to kill Flaming fist members, and unless I went on a killing rampage in Beregost or some other town there was no large never ending spawn of Fists. Also the fists were not powerful but meduim strength single warriors that were easily dispatched.
My other beef is of people claiming to be evil.
In RP theres 2 kinds of Dominant(In my opinion) Evil Powerbuilds 1 - they got to high levels early with a good build so obviously due to their superior PVP they take charge of RP.
Good guys wearing Black 2 - They RP as Evil and they have Nasty Alignments but when all is said and done the guy behind the keyboard is too much of a softy to do anything evil so his character doesn't even act evil he is just a guy wearing black clothing/armor that tends to disagree with Sam the Paladin thus making him "evil".
Evil should be Evil, there should be players you are afraid of for good reason- Killing of Guards and Townspeople should be allowed to be organized and Executed and if a Good player attempts to stand up then he submits to the line of fire- If you have a good alignment and draw blade against townsfolk for no reason your Alignment should be Affected.
Further more! Like in Baldur's Gate 1 if you have a low Reputation you should have a bounty placed on your character making him Free Game to DM spawned Fist/Bounty Hunters/Adventurers - As well as other players.
Thats my 2 cents.
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Jiszo
Senior Member
Posts: 449
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Post by Jiszo on Feb 4, 2009 21:21:33 GMT -5
First off I don't see how the Flaming fist is supposed to be this all powerful all seeing and knowing force of death to evil doers. As far as I'm concerned the fist aren't even good guys. When I played Baldur's Gate 1 I took every oppertunity to kill Flaming fist members, and unless I went on a killing rampage in Beregost or some other town there was no large never ending spawn of Fists. Also the fists were not powerful but meduim strength single warriors that were easily dispatched. My other beef is of people claiming to be evil. In RP theres 2 kinds of Dominant(In my opinion) Evil Powerbuilds 1 - they got to high levels early with a good build so obviously due to their superior PVP they take charge of RP. Good guys wearing Black 2 - They RP as Evil and they have Nasty Alignments but when all is said and done the guy behind the keyboard is too much of a softy to do anything evil so his character doesn't even act evil he is just a guy wearing black clothing/armor that tends to disagree with Sam the Paladin thus making him "evil". Evil should be Evil, there should be players you are afraid of for good reason- Killing of Guards and Townspeople should be allowed to be organized and Executed and if a Good player attempts to stand up then he submits to the line of fire- If you have a good alignment and draw blade against townsfolk for no reason your Alignment should be Affected. Further more! Like in Baldur's Gate 1 if you have a low Reputation you should have a bounty placed on your character making him Free Game to DM spawned Fist/Bounty Hunters/Adventurers - As well as other players. Thats my 2 cents. Bounties, i like the sound of that. Can this be done? |
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Post by Zealote on Feb 4, 2009 21:37:26 GMT -5
The Fist soldiers in BG1 were lvl 7, highest lvl for the game. But you are correct, outside the cities, or further south of the Farmlands, the Fist soldiers wont be more than 4-5 men party. Except on rare ocasions. But you cannot compare a game such as Bg1, first due to the lvl restrictions, second, because there was no DM to control the Fists.
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Post by Forumlord of Talos on Feb 4, 2009 21:48:30 GMT -5
Here is a suggestion that may make things interesting as well as resolve some of this.
SirC I heard was thinking of requiring all Fist soldiers have Neverwinter Nine as a class.
I know scripting can be done to add adjust and alter feats in a class to customize it for a server.
My suggestion is at lvl 5 NW9 the soldier gains a recruit similar to a Blackguard summons. The recruit would be comparable to the Blackguards lvl 4 skeletal summons except in appearance. Symbolizing the characters rank in the fist having reached a point of having troops under his watch.
This would also make a realistic show that soldiers don't patrol roadways alone
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Post by Iceshard on Feb 4, 2009 22:14:20 GMT -5
<--- I gave SirC the bug on NW9. I have a Fist character that will be a scourge to the evils.. then again I think both evil and good are fun to play if done right..
As for adding in a companion, it could be done, have something as a summon, and reskin it, but I doubt it will be done anytime soon. As for the NW9 thing in general it was mentioned because it adds such great bonuses when you are with an ally.
On the topic of evils: Yes, we organize things, and yes we kill A LOT of Fists, but when we dont have a DM for events or anything, we rely on our selves to make up assassinations or targets.. then again we are also more knowledgeable than most factions out there (we are always watching). So trying to take that fear factor or constant barage of attacks away will leave you bored again with spawns...
On alignment shifts: I agree, these should come into play, even if it results in the loss of a class or ability. It would be fun for a paladin to lose his faith and have to find it again.
Keep in mind, without evil on this server or the constant attacks of it.. you are just doing a mindless grind talking about slaughtering some evil force of unlimited spawning... OR you could be talking about who got murdered the other night, or an ambush that took place recently, or a thief who was caught..
-Ice
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Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Feb 4, 2009 22:30:17 GMT -5
I just don't get it. The Fist recently raided the thieves/assassin's guildhall... which is all well and good and a fun activity for them... but the logical reaction to that action would be to step up the attacks on the Fist (among general guerilla tactics). Now the attacks have ramped up and it sounds to me like most people are calling foul. Actually, the attacks were already ramped up before the raid. Just read the post by Broham1 that he made BEFORE the raid to see. However, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the assassins attacking the Fist. What I am saying is the WHERE and the HOW. But most of all, I'm speaking of those who are NOT assassins who just have to be the tough guy and attack the Flaming Fist. Bounties, i like the sound of that. Can this be done? I sure would like to, but do you remember what happened when I put bounties on the heads of all drow? I certainly do. SirC I heard was thinking of requiring all Fist soldiers have Neverwinter Nine as a class. You really do have spies everywhere. I only told one person about this and I know he didn't tell anyone else. First off I don't see how the Flaming fist is supposed to be this all powerful all seeing and knowing force of death to evil doers. As far as I'm concerned the fist aren't even good guys. Um. . . that's your own personal perception based on another game. And yes, the Flaming Fist were good guys in the game except for those who had infiltrated it (like Angelo). Because your evil PC killed them didn't make them the bad guys. The Fist are the good guys here, they are the keepers of the law, and they are the most powerful organization in the area. Those are all FACTS. |
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Post by luna on Feb 4, 2009 22:39:06 GMT -5
First off I don't see how the Flaming fist is supposed to be this all powerful all seeing and knowing force of death to evil doers. As far as I'm concerned the fist aren't even good guys. I don't think anyone is argueing that flaming fist is good and will stomp out evil or any of that stuff. And hopefully this isnt' getting interpreted as don't be evil or try to do any evil plotting. Mainly the flaming fist are the dominant force and the law of the sword coast.. all the way down to Amn. This includes Beregost and Naskel. Just keep that in mind if your running around killing every member of the flaming fist you come across. There should be consequences if that happens due to how powerful the flaming fist is. |
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Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Feb 4, 2009 22:40:45 GMT -5
Mainly the flaming fist are the dominant force and the law of the sword coast.. all the way down to Amn. This includes Beregost and Nashkel. Not Nashkel. That village is part of the nation of Amn and the Fist cannot go there. |
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Post by Zealote on Feb 4, 2009 22:48:32 GMT -5
Now back to the subject:
PCs that kill Fists should get shifted to evil and those who kill anyone, to chaotic and evil. So paladins can SMITE THEIR ARSES!
And because its proper RP.
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Post by Zealote on Feb 4, 2009 22:50:30 GMT -5
Mainly the flaming fist are the dominant force and the law of the sword coast.. all the way down to Amn. This includes Beregost and Nashkel. Not Nashkel. That village is part of the nation of Amn and the Fist cannot go there. Are you sure SirC? I remember ALOT of Fists there. And Beregost is under the jurisdiction of the Temple of Lathander. Now back on topic...please? |
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Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Feb 4, 2009 23:03:04 GMT -5
Not Nashkel. That village is part of the nation of Amn and the Fist cannot go there. Are you sure SirC? I remember ALOT of Fists there. And Beregost is under the jurisdiction of the Temple of Lathander. Now back on topic...please? Yes, I am sure. What you saw there were Amnish soldiers. And I know about Beregost, but I don't specifically mention it being independent all the time because it's already been stated and I assume that most people here know that by now. Assuming we ever get Athkatla in this PW, I will definitely run the organization known as the Cowled Wizards. If you don't like the Fist, wait'll you see them! "There will be no use of magical energy within our borders without a license!" ;D NOW back to topic.  |
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Post by ohelmut on Feb 5, 2009 3:06:09 GMT -5
Heh i am new here, but just can't resist and stay away from such a sweet topic. From the Book of vile darkness: "Murder.
Killing is one of the most horrible acts that a creature can commit. Murder is the killing of an intelligent creature for a nefarious purpose: theft, personal gain, perverse pleasure, or the like.
The heroes who go into the green dragon’s woodland lair to slay it are not murderers. In a fantasy world based on an objective definition of evil, killing an evil creature to stop it from doing further harm is not an evil act. Even killing an evil creature for personal gain is not exactly evil (although it’s not a good act), because it still stops the creature’s redations on the innocent. Such a justification, however, works only for the slaying of creatures of consummate, irredeemable evil, such as chromatic dragons.
Evil beings delight in murder. It is the ultimate expression of their power and their willingness to commit any sort of heinous act. It shows that they are either powerful enough or detached enough to do anything they wish. To particularly evil creatures, especially those with very alien outlooks, murder is itself a desirable goal. Some such creatures hate life and despise all that lives. They relish either death or undeath and thus seek to quench life wherever possible. Such reatures are usually (but not always) undead themselves."Well... if the killing of the fists is a personal goal of the character and especially if he is proud of it(making marks on dead bodies and etc). It's a murder = heavy alignment shit towards evil, no doubts. However not every killing is a murder and not every killing is an evil act. If there is a war between two factions than killing as an act of war isn't evil it's more looking like zero aligment shift. On the other hand Evil and Good are powers in the DnD world, so when a character willingly shifts balance between those powers towards evil his alignment shifts towards evil. Killing good guys always shifts the balance towards evil and personal motivation of the character doesn't change it. In the book of vile darkness described a villian "Misguided fool" he commits evil acts "for the name of good" and sincerely thinks he deserves sainthood ... though "smite"-able. So if the killed fist is a good guy then alignment shift. |
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Post by Tiefling on Feb 7, 2009 4:50:45 GMT -5
I'd say there is third group aswell. Those who are playing evil characters, and are playing them well. But, due to dislake for the generic "Chaotic Stupid" evil they just do not get much of chance to be evil. You can rob and muggle other players, but when it comes to anything beyond that, the evil character needs a DM to babysit him. |
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