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Post by Zealote on Feb 4, 2009 13:09:48 GMT -5
This is for our friends DMs and Players. I ask only one thing: People killing people for no reason, or for futile reasons, please shift their alignment toward evil and/or chaotic. I know quite a few characters that like to kill Fist, or sometimes random characters. Not all of them are evil. This is not entirely the player's fault. Please DM Buddies, shift some alignments when you guys are watching, and please Player Buddies, ask for a shift when you commit some evil act. I find it somehow ridiculous that characters that commit murder for futile reasons are NOT evil. Murderers are evil. This is not a discussion. Kill in self defense or kill to protect something or someone else is fine. But to kill for NO REASON is pure evil and your alignment must be shifted. I found that because I fought the character that killed my Flaming Fist soldier, and left even marks on his body, for no reason, and he was NOT EVIL. I was fighting him with my paladin and to Valek's surprise, murderers can be something else than evil. Cute. (I wont say the name because people might metagame) The player explained to me that he does evil and good acts to keep them balanced, but even so, the alignment must be shifted. To good or to evil. Im willing to bet that most of the characters out there are not evil, but like to kill a Fist now and then. Weird isnt it?
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Post by DM haunted on Feb 4, 2009 13:14:06 GMT -5
Yep , I will be doing this more often...You can count on it!!
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Post by hnefi on Feb 4, 2009 13:19:51 GMT -5
I wonder what kind of good acts he'd be doing to balance murder. Save a starving family of orphans and nobly reject the reward offered to him by the king of fairyland?
Seriously, I wouldn't consider a character that murders people neutral, unless he atoned for his crimes and never murdered again. If a character tries to "balance" acts of extreme goodness with acts of extreme evil, I'd say that's a mentally unstable CE character. You can't be good while murdering people! You can, however, be evil and save starving children.
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Post by broham2 on Feb 4, 2009 13:20:50 GMT -5
Sweet!
I would hesitate to say the killing a fist is Chaotic though.. a LE thief would have a very good reason to kill Fists right now due to the guild-attack. Following a personal code of honor or acting with loyalty to ideals and a group is just as 'lawful' as someone that obeys the 'law'.
But evil.. yeaaah man, I would say anyone that kills anyone without a DAMN good motive (like self defense or to protect innocents) is evil. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
I've actually had quite a few alignment shifts since I've started and I appreciate them. Usually it means I am outwardly expressing my internal thoughts well enough to get my point across..
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Post by Zealote on Feb 4, 2009 13:27:44 GMT -5
I used chaotic as the random act of attack. Not actually the Fist killing. Depends on the character. In your example you can be LE and kill the Fist. But if you kill the random traveler you never saw before for no reason thats chaotic evil.
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Post by ghostlyrose on Feb 4, 2009 13:28:31 GMT -5
oh if we are changing alignments can Rai be changed to chaotic, I think she deserves it now
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Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Feb 4, 2009 13:37:20 GMT -5
Well, if a person just killed a Fist PC for no reason, I would drop him about 15 points to evil. That is like a "non-evil" person murdering a police officer in today's world. There is NO WAY anyone can say that a person who does that is not evil.
Also, if the "non-evil" person who did it is caught, he will either hang by the neck until dead OR have some other form of execution. (Recently I found an emote that'd work great with an axe for a beheading. ;D)
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maximvs
Active Member
Governator
Posts: 130
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Post by maximvs on Feb 4, 2009 13:39:08 GMT -5
Its because when you are neutral, you are immune to smite evl and protection vs evil!
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Post by DM haunted on Feb 4, 2009 13:39:30 GMT -5
The Forge A emote!!
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Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Feb 4, 2009 13:49:32 GMT -5
Another thought:
Chaotic neutral PCs, remember, are NEUTRAL in alignment. This would mean more of an indifference to any particular side and doing what only benefits himself. Doing an evil act that would result in his death if caught is not anywhere close to his alignment.
Also note that it is MUCH harder for a PC to get an alignment shift towards good than it is towards evil. I also do it in smaller increments.
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Post by DM mithari on Feb 4, 2009 14:01:04 GMT -5
Another thought: Chaotic neutral PCs, remember, are NEUTRAL in alignment. This would Support! Chaotic Neutral is an alignment too. It is not an excuse to say "whatever the hell I want and I'm still playing it right!". You're not. Welcome to Chaotic Evil. Chaotic Neutral has limits to what they'll do.
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Post by Zealote on Feb 4, 2009 14:02:06 GMT -5
Its because when you are neutral, you are immune to smite evl and protection vs evil! Exactly how i found out.
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Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Feb 4, 2009 14:14:14 GMT -5
By the way, since almost every PC out there from neutral good to chaotic evil has something against the Fist, and almost every PC out there from true neutral to chaotic evil just HAS to kill one every few days, the Flaming Fist PCs have been undergoing PvP attacks almost constantly now.
It's funny how back when the only two Fist member out there were Aiden and Justin, not many people attacked them. That's probably because they were high level. I have a feeling that people now are using that challenge rating to see if they can get away with killing a Fist for fun.
So people, as fun as it may be to pick on the law (whether it is because you just got a traffic ticket for real and want to take it out on the in-game law, or are actually RPing) please remember that the Flaming Fist PCs probably get tired of dying every other map transition. And since they do, I've been RPing that they are just random Fist soldiers and not the actual PC unless it is something important. Seriously, every Fist out there has probably been murdered about five times apiece and has a dozen "killer marks" on his body. No doubt the killers won't stop until they have the entire alphabet on their body except for a Z. That one is reserved for Zorro, and no matter how chaotic he may be, he doesn't kill honest lawmen.
And note, I don't care if your PC has an alignment of EXTRA EXTRA LAWFUL GOODIE GOOD, he WILL hang if caught.
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Post by broham2 on Feb 4, 2009 14:37:47 GMT -5
I am not sure why other groups would want the Fist dead, but being that there are multiple evil guilds going right now (Zhents, Assassins, Thayvians, etc) and fewer on the side of good.. its probably more or less due to chance. However, the thieves and assassins want the Fist to pay for obvious RP reasons, and PvP is really our only way of doing that.
When the Fist was just Aiden and Justin they didn’t provoke the guild as far as I am aware (I wasn’t involved in the guild at the time and neither were 90% of its current members) so I can’t say for sure (I know Hakeem had fun a long while back).. but I know if I was playing a low level thief at the time it wouldn’t have taken much sleuthing to figure out that Justin and Aiden were above my means. It’s not about metagaming, its about playing your character as evil and not stupid. It would be stupid to attack someone that you’ve seen kill powerful monsters that would clean your clock. It is evil to plot against them in other ways. I can’t speak for everyone that attacks Fists, but the challenge rating has little to do with it.. its about opportunity and intelligence.
I think it is a good idea to RP that the Fist member is a random Fist and not that particular PC when they are killed. It’s stupid to think that ANY hero would continue to grab a sword and patrol the road when it means he is likely going to die (regardless of whether he has been raised or not). Unless it’s a plot driven killing, the death should be a random Fist.
By that same token however, if you catch an assassin or thief, why wouldn’t he just be a random assassin or thief? I know this gets discussed and has been before with no real conclusion, but when the evil PCs are caught, they are held accountable for their actions (you mention hanging, beheading, all sorts of things) but if a good character is killed they do not. It is my proposal that the stunt-man deaths work both ways. Feel free to hang said evil stand-in, just as I will kill your Fist stand-ins, and then we can all have fun like we should be, and no one is out a character (or xp, or gold, or what have you).
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Post by bleedingdeath on Feb 4, 2009 14:43:45 GMT -5
So does that mean if someone kills the Fist and the person gets caught doing it that both the assassin and the fist player are both perma killed?
I don't see why you cant when an assassin is caught or a fist member is killed it cant just be rped that a random fist unit or random assassin is killed instead of actually killing the player. Unless the player wants to kill off their char.
This way there is an infinite number of fist and assassin and some persistent conflict.
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