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Post by DM mithari on Dec 14, 2008 7:51:51 GMT -5
Ok here is Bible on Hips ... Hips Cannot be spotted with True Seeing .. never has been and never should be ... Hips is not a feat for invisible... those of us with hips have worked hard to meet the MULTIPLE feat requirments and skill requirments to attain it. But it's not really a cost when the skills are extremely useful anyway (Hide/MS/Tumble? Come on...), and the feats, while situational, aren't lousy either.
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Post by driderman on Dec 14, 2008 7:56:22 GMT -5
Yeah, what a loss, having to put ranks in tumble, hide and move silently with your rogue...
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Post by vytek on Dec 14, 2008 8:02:28 GMT -5
I love to see people whine about a particular skill, class, feat etc ... after over 20 years of being online .. yah been around since baud 300 ... and 35 plus years of RPing .. this is 1 immutable fact .. "I dont like something .. because i should be able to beat anything and pawn .. with no cost to myself .. lol" .. everyone is an expert ... if so make your own game ... lol .. the costs to Shadow Dance are there .. they take 2 feats plus 3 skills and 2 more skills to be able to counter ... and not effectively unless you can get some boosts.... the ranger has to eat 17 levels and the assassin has to eat 8 ... AGAIN .. hips can be countered and effectively if you CHOOSE to spend the skill points and classes to do so .. if you havent and are blind .. that is your choice.
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Post by Forumlord of Talos on Dec 14, 2008 9:55:38 GMT -5
Don't give me that BS the skill points where going into the same skills anyway as they are the base bread and butter of any finesse class and the feats of dodge and mobility are the requirement for 3 different PRC melee classes so odds are you would have taken these as well. So dint give us this crap that you went out of your way very far to add HIPS as a feat This part was just rude and uncalled for. As a hipster myself I try and respect the role play of others and their feelings as this is a game after all with persona's played on both sides of an encounter. The idea is that it should remain fun for everyone involved. Vytek I can tell by your responses already that you fall right into that copycat power gamer type mentality that reminds us so much of the simple minded WOW mentality. As far as Rp'ing things like a summon spell guess what Kahai my druid does just that she role plays a call to the woods with a howling wail to summon a dire wolf to her side. When I have used hips right in front of people I usually state exactly what the action is such as steps forward into so and so persons shadow sometimes time permitting flourishing on the detail. No i dont expect you to rp every action but take the time to consider that your abuse of a game mechanic for personal pleasure may be upsetting others. I will stop now before I say what I am really thinking
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Post by vytek on Dec 14, 2008 10:02:52 GMT -5
LOL snivel whine cry .. yadda yadda..
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Post by Forumlord of Talos on Dec 14, 2008 10:08:54 GMT -5
Now having bitched out Vytek somewhat. I will agree with him to some degree.
HIPS is a feat that if used as it is properly described is a valid feat for the classes that have it and thus no one should argue its use if played correctly. There are ways to counter HIPs builds and if your character didn't put anything into spot or listen You do have yourself to blame. able learner is a wonder feat if you find yourself lacking the skill points for those cross class skills.
Unfortunately most of the frustration comes in PvP past the opening round when the Hips player will use the A, S, or D button to disengage from combat mid swing to HIPS
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Post by vytek on Dec 14, 2008 10:25:30 GMT -5
oh yes those brainless gamebuilders at oblivion for daring to put in a broken feat that .... used properly? lol ... Mommy my uber build isnt uber ... haha
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Post by Forumlord of Talos on Dec 14, 2008 10:34:39 GMT -5
Vytek
Grow up
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Post by blametherogue on Dec 14, 2008 10:47:35 GMT -5
Hips is what it is. A supernatural, uncanny, stealth ability in a fantasy game. That's right, fantasy. I'm all for realism and RP, but we musn't forget this isn't the real world. No one can hide in plain sight IRL, but we don't have ogres running around IRL either. I don't think it's bad RP to use the ability as it works. This is one of those abilities that most people will never agree on. That's just the way it's always been, and will always be. I'm all for agreeing to disagree, and not arguing about it.
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Post by CartMid on Dec 14, 2008 11:01:34 GMT -5
As most of you know I play a ranger that has as a mainly skill the ability to hide in plain sight. I do keep vanishing a lot but... hey... I have less than 30ac and my attacks are not the most powerful ones... Hips is a way to counter that. On the other hand, if a high strenghtened mob/player catch my poor fella he is dead. ;D Recently though I have noticed a modification in the hips scripts and the mobs keep following me even after entering stealthy mode. I haven't had the time to test it yet, but I think if I stay still I'm dead
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Post by eldur(retired) on Dec 14, 2008 11:08:38 GMT -5
As most of you know I play a ranger that has as a mainly skill the ability to hide in plain sight. I do keep vanishing a lot but... hey... I have less than 30ac and my attacks are not the most powerful ones... Hips is a way to counter that. On the other hand, if a high strenghtened mob/player catch my poor fella he is dead. ;D Recently though I have noticed a modification in the hips scripts and the mobs keep following me even after entering stealthy mode. I haven't had the time to test it yet, but I think if I stay still I'm dead I think this modification came in with SoZ in an attempt to make npc's a little smarter with both HiPS and Invisibility. If you vanish, they move to the last place you were. I think the thought behind this is that this gives the npc's a chance to make their spot and listen checks. If you have good Hide, you can probably sit still. If you have good Move Silent, I'd recommend to keep moving. The one issue I've had with this code is that the npc's do not go to where you've hidden, but to where you are currently standing. Maybe they are smelling you now? This applies to not only npc's, but player pets as well. I really like the coding change, but I wish they just went to where you were when you activated your hide abilitiy.
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Post by CartMid on Dec 14, 2008 11:12:04 GMT -5
I'm going to make tests on it but until now, even if I change directions they follow...
If this is like you're talking, I really like it though ;D
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Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Dec 14, 2008 13:34:05 GMT -5
My problem is not with HIPS itself, but rather just taking the one level of shadowdancer solely for that ability and then failing to RP the shadowdancer. Rangers and Assassins having HIPS and using it do not bother me at all. Sometime HIPs will probably be moved to a fourth level shadowdancer or something, in which case it'd be more reasonable as the players WOULD have to spend a fair amount of their levels just to get it.
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Post by Zealote on Dec 14, 2008 13:38:05 GMT -5
I kinda agree with you there SirC. Get Hips on lvl 1 is kinda easy. But i would go for lvl 3, since Hips are the shadowdancer's most remarkable skill.
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Post by Iceshard on Dec 14, 2008 14:43:19 GMT -5
Screw that, move HiPs to level 5 or 8 even for SD, its their most remarkable skill, yes, so why should they get it when they just start out? lol, doesnt make much sense, but for the time being its a dump class for people to take that want instant HiPs, otherwise the class it self is somewhat.. hm.. worthless?!
But yeah if your going to use HiPs just please have a reason of why you have it, and a way of using it other than clicking a button. Use a spell of darkness or invisability, or something. Thats just my biggest thing with HiPs. -Ice
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