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Post by borton on Dec 13, 2008 17:19:33 GMT -5
How does one counter the people whit a high hide and ms does lesion skill counter that ?
borton
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Post by DM mithari on Dec 13, 2008 17:22:46 GMT -5
Listen/Spot and hope for the hidden dice to like you.
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Post by Iceshard on Dec 13, 2008 19:26:59 GMT -5
Tee Hee.. and for those of us with very good skill in Hide and MS.. you better have a high Listen or Spot skill to counter it.
But yes those are the skill ways to counter it, I think True Seeing would also help you out.
-Ice
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Post by DEV Akavit on Dec 13, 2008 19:53:04 GMT -5
I believe true seeing is supposed to work but it doesn't.
Keeping the search mode activated helps too. I'm not sure what it does exactly but someone did tell me that it gives a PC and automatic 20 (plus skill modifier) on the spot check. I haven't checked to see if that's true or not.
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Post by Forumlord of Talos on Dec 13, 2008 20:19:17 GMT -5
True seeing is not a valid spell for spotting a hidden character
According to the Player's Handbook, True Seeing confers on the subject the ability to "see all things as they actually are." The subject sees through darkness, notices secret doors, and sees through blur, displacement, invisibility as well as through illusions and polymorph/transmuted things. The subject is also able to see into the ethereal plane.
A hidden character would not be spotted if hiding in a bush or behind a curtain etc. or in the case of a shadow dancer actually passing into the realm of shadow. True seeing does not see Through objects or around corners. it only sees what is around you.
Clauraudiance/Clairvoyance is a much better spell for spotting a HIPS persona.
All that said I understand why you ask. Many HIPS characters abuse the ability by playing hidden at high noon in the center of an open road. The only class capable of such an act is a shadow dancer capable of creating a shadow large enough to enter. IE throwing a cloak in the air and ducking into the shadow created beneath it.
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Post by larkin on Dec 13, 2008 20:24:07 GMT -5
and that's exactly what most of them are: SD level 1 + 29 levels of other classes
The way HIPS works in NWN, anything (or spell) that detects invisible should detect the HIPSters too.
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Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Dec 13, 2008 20:38:14 GMT -5
Yep. HIPS is used as if it were a potion of invisibility these days, with virtually no one RPing that they are actually a Shadow Dancer. Now, with the stealth mode and invisibility so the players only turns transparent, I can understand why people choose to go with HIPS, but it still seems rather cheesy. Come the time when we have a hak or something that fixes that invisibility/stealth, most of the HIPS players will probably want a rebuild so they can put that extra level to use. I say just take the regular stealth, go with it, and hope that the hak is added someday.
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Post by Iceshard on Dec 13, 2008 22:05:57 GMT -5
Im an assassin, and yes I admit I abuse the HiPs thing by wandering the roads and what not, but there are also times where I dont use that, instead I relyin on different clothing. My biggest thing has been when a player goes all HiPs in front of you during a fight or something. I at least use my darkness spell as a "smoke bomb" to go poof under lol.
It gets annoying, but its something that will prob stick around for a bit given our current circumstances.
-Ice
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Post by Zealote on Dec 13, 2008 22:22:03 GMT -5
I do play a shadow dancer, and i use that in combat, during the day. The reason why i do it is because i think of it as a supernatural ability, not a skillful form of hide. Shadowdancers can summon a shadow. How would you RP that if not as a supernatural ability? So i think the same of their Hips.  About true seeing: The spell description for NWN2 says: 'Imediatly spots hidden creatures'. But this doesnt work IG. |
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Post by magicshisha on Dec 13, 2008 23:47:29 GMT -5
About true seeing: The spell description for NWN2 says: 'Imediatly spots hidden creatures'. But this doesnt work IG. Myes, because the ingame spell description is wrong... again.  Push me gently for detailed information. |
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Post by Forumlord of Talos on Dec 14, 2008 3:37:38 GMT -5
Shadow dancers summon a shadow creature. As far as their ability to Hips this is not a summons but a manipulation of existing shadows to slide between planes.
Here is the actual description of the ability
A shadow dancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadow dancer can hide him/herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.
Thus my previous example of a cloak being tossed into the air to create a shadow beneath it would be valid but jumping into your own shadow on the ground is not
As far as HIPS ability Shadow dancer is the only one who by mechanics can do this. Rangers and Assassins Hips ability comes from the ability to blend with their surroundings and are not supernatural magical abilities
I am a long time user of Rped Hips and would like to see more people role play their ability as well ( yes at times I slip up and forget so not saying I am perfect either)
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Post by larkin on Dec 14, 2008 5:59:46 GMT -5
well, what annoys me most about it, are the people constantly "vanishing" in PvP combat, mostly those equipped with bows.
Why the hell are they counted as being "out of combat" if I get an attack of opportunity every round while they just "run off" to HIPS again for their next attack? That's plain BS
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Post by vytek on Dec 14, 2008 7:06:33 GMT -5
Ok here is Bible on Hips ... Hips Cannot be spotted with True Seeing .. never has been and never should be ... Hips is not a feat for invisible... those of us with hips have worked hard to meet the MULTIPLE feat requirments and skill requirments to attain it.
RP wise ... SD's have made pacts with the shadow realms to be able to manipulate it to a personal use.
Rangers have HIPS at level 17 for outdoors .. so good at hiding camo .. they have earned it
Assassins gain it at lvl 8 .. again skills learned ...
You want to spot a Hipster .. then spend the appropriate SKILLS to be able to. ... smart and veteran Hipsters know how to hide and stay hidden but from a very select few. You dont like our Hips skills .. too bad .. after u have spent 2 feats and 3 skill classes to gain a SD hips you will undestand .. maybe. or even taken a prestige class and waited 8 levels for it .. or waited 17 levels as a ranger.
Nuff said ... far as im concerned .. you whiny i think one little spell should negate multiple levels of work .. enjoy my Hips. True Seeing does not work .. is not Broken and wont work .. being a hipster i know how to see hipsters .. but that i wont tell you ..lol
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Post by Forumlord of Talos on Dec 14, 2008 7:20:56 GMT -5
I understand the frustration Larkin
the only real suggestions I can give is make a character with high as hell spot and listen skills. Spells such as amplify claraudiance /clairvoyance are great for boosting listen and spot checks by +10. This hopefully is high enough to allow you to spot them before combat starts. Also casters being pestered by HIPS persona's will often use grease spells and the like to track down a hips character.
Outside of that the only thing I can say is hope the guy using it isn't a HIPS cheeser ( someone who flips in and out of combat without making a realistic RP effort to hide IE duck into tall grass run Through a crowd or find a nearby shadow etc) If they are doing it right in front of you one they are either a shadow dancer or an abusive gamer.
If you do happen to have some AOE type spells and are facing a cheesing HIPster crank your in game sounds up footsteps can still be heard ( game sounds are not masked by character ability) with good stereo surround you can determine their approximate local and let fly a few mass damagers. FIGHT CHEESE WITH CHEESE
On many servers shadow dancer is re scripted so that Hips becomes a lvl 4 skill rather then lvl 1 for balance purposes and their Ab is boosted to high to counter the adjustment. I would seriously push for this change.
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Post by vytek on Dec 14, 2008 7:48:15 GMT -5
LOL at hips cheeser ... Shadow Dancing is a innate skill after being learned .. if you want us to RP a duck then i want all casters to RP a cast spell ...all fiters to RP a swing.. all bowman to RP a new arrow ... etc ... oo yah all rangers to RP calling their pet ... you see where this is going hopefully .. Hahaha ... if someone hasnt spent the time to dedicate themselves to learning how to counter something .. then i have no sympathy for them ... personally I would like to see a shadow plane ... where you have to go to learn Shadow Dancing .. replete with appropriate RP ...and where yah can go chill too  |
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