ECL and XP.

[meldor]

Yeah, NWN already make penality for ECL.. as a deep gnome my xp can change 3 times during one level killing the same monsters. I think it's quite unfair as I already have to gather 3000xp over anyone else for every level. Why being penalized twice.

[broham2]

You ARENT being penalized twice

The whole point of an ECL is saying that your level one character is equal to a level two or three character, and you gain exp as you would if you WERE that level.

You aren't being penalized, if anything you shouldnt be getting the level one xp in the first place, you should START with the low xp.

[mrdeadman]

I guess some people just wont get it. You ARE being penalized twice. This is why you need more XP to go up levels. That is the penalty. Lowering the XP you get is a further penalty i.e. 1+1=2. It's really simple to me.

As for getting worse xp to start Broham2, that's just dumb. My ECL 3 character may have some skills and stuff to make him a little better but he's still first level. It's those skills and stuff that make him need 10000 xp to get to level 2. He should not be penalized further by lowing the XP he actually gets.

[DM Sir Carnifex]

Dec 26, 2008 14:13:00 GMT -5 mrdeadman said:

I guess some people just wont get it. You ARE being penalized twice. This is why you need more XP to go up levels. That is the penalty. Lowering the XP you get is a further penalty i.e. 1+1=2. It's really simple to me.

As for getting worse xp to start Broham2, that's just dumb. My ECL 3 character may have some skills and stuff to make him a little better but he's still first level. It's those skills and stuff that make him need 10000 xp to get to level 2. He should not be penalized further by lowing the XP he actually gets.

Fact is, this has already been discussed a lot, and if you read through everything, you should see why there is no "double penalty". I don't think that the ECL race XP penalty is ever going to be changed as ECL races (especially deep gnomes) are overpowered as it is. To give them additional help is what would not make sense.

[mrdeadman]

I don't expect nor even actually desire a change to be made. I was just supporting Shorns statement by saying, "yes I see this too." My ECL3 is already level 4 anyway. You'll never in anyway convince me that there is not a double penalty there. I'd just like others to do the math and figure it out too.

[meldor]

There is a double penalty .. play a deep gnome and you will quick find out.

as an example from lvl 3 to 4 at bugbear cave.. from 0 to 33% you get 33 xp a kill from 33% to 66% you get 29 xp a kill and from 66% to 100% you get 26 xp a kill.. and this over the fact that your lvl take 3000xp over a normal character lvl 3.

[DM Sir Carnifex]

Dec 26, 2008 14:51:43 GMT -5 meldor said:

There is a double penalty .. play a deep gnome and you will quick find out.

as an example from lvl 3 to 4 at bugbear cave.. from 0 to 33% you get 33 xp a kill from 33% to 66% you get 29 xp a kill and from 66% to 100% you get 26 xp a kill.. and this over the fact that your lvl take 3000xp over a normal character lvl 3.

I am quite aware of that fact, but I don't consider it an additional penalty as ALL XP is based on XP already earned, and not level. The fact that the XP drops at a certain point is just PART OF THE Already-existing penalty.

[mingming]

Yeesh, do you not get get it?

Your ECL3 Deep Gnome at third level gets EXP awards as if you were a SIXTH LEVEL character. There is no double penalty. Everything you do in terms of leveling up, xp, and penalties is figured as if you were actually 3 levels higher than you are. It's not just the xp chart, it's EVERYTHING you do that concerns xp, whether it be respawning or how much to next level. That's the PRICE of playing a ECL race. Read the damned D&D books if you don't believe us, but stop accusing people of not understanding math. This is how it's MEANT to work, and nothing you say or do will change it.

[His Masters Voice]

Chill, you're both looking at the same mountain from a different angle.

[meldor]

All I say is there is a double penalty.. did I complain or said I wanted it changed. Relax..

[raenir]

No ECL is clearly getting penalized twice. You see this with Spellcasters who even fi they have an adjustment of +3 do not have the spells or the health of someone whose 3 levels ahead.

Essentially characters with LA have to work much harder to gain levels then those who do not as it is (taking 10,000 xp to get to next level when someone near that level only needs 2000 etc) by having XP given only on basis of XP already earned this is compounded again, 3.5e P&P At no point requires this or suggests the additional penalty.

Not that I am asking for it to be changed or anything I don't notice yet nor care having to kill an additional nth+ monsters but some do.

[luna]

Dec 26, 2008 14:51:43 GMT -5 meldor said:

There is a double penalty .. play a deep gnome and you will quick find out.

as an example from lvl 3 to 4 at bugbear cave.. from 0 to 33% you get 33 xp a kill from 33% to 66% you get 29 xp a kill and from 66% to 100% you get 26 xp a kill.. and this over the fact that your lvl take 3000xp over a normal character lvl 3.

Hey Meldor.. I took a quick look at the xp script since this situation does seem a bit odd (the gradual xp drop while being the same level). Sadly the xp script looks like it was written by someone with a PHD in statistics from M.I.T. , so I haven't made sense yet of why your XP distribution is like this.

When I have more time later I'll look at this more. But this is not high on the to do list right now.

As for ECL... it seems fair to me. Especially you folks with SR.. since a lot of magic bounces of you. Seems like a fair trade off.

[DM Sir Carnifex]

Dec 27, 2008 2:39:43 GMT -5 @luna said:

Hey Meldor.. I took a quick look at the xp script since this situation does seem a bit odd (the gradual xp drop while being the same level). Sadly the xp script looks like it was written by someone with a PHD in statistics from M.I.T. , so I haven't made sense yet of why your XP distribution is like this.

It's because the XP gain is based on how much XP the character already has, not on current level. See the little chart I made in the earlier part of this thread.

[loudent2]

You ARE being penalized twice.

there is no "double penalty"

It's a matter of perspective. I can see what both sides are saying. The real question is what you're trying to achieve and if it's reasonable.

The reality is that ECLs are just not implemented correctly in NWN2 so no matter what you do here it won't be "right"

It's also true, no matter how you cut it, that a Level 1 Drow is in no way equivelent to a level 4 human. However a level 1 human is, in no way, equivalent to a level 1 drow.

The bigger problem, IMO, is that no devs seem to understand the XP script.

[emolas]

In reality, ECL races are LESS penalized in NWN than they are supposed to be. ECL stands for Effective Character Level and means, for all intents and purposes, your character is treated as that much higher than his listed level and not just for XP needed to get to the next level. For example: A drow with 0 XP gets the same XP per kill as a human when in reality, a drow should be getting the equivalent XP per kill as a 3rd level human. The XP per kill you get at the END of your level here is what you SHOULD be getting for the whole level but NWN doesn't calculate it that way. Yes, it is a double penalty in that it takes more to advance and you earn less per kill but that is they way it is supposed to be.