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RP XP
Dec 8, 2008 11:08:38 GMT -5
Post by DM Cephas on Dec 8, 2008 11:08:38 GMT -5
I think one of the big problems here is our own personal mindsets. If our goal is have the baddest PC out there or getting to our lvl 30 build, grinding (and expecting equal xp compensation during an event) and getting to the next level will be a constant complaint/issue. The level disparity will always be there because not everyone will have the mindset of not grinding. I know I've fallen into this numerous times as well with Nahum but at some point I really had to change my line of thinking for playing BS:TSCC. The most obvious symptom of this is the creation of a new PC once it becomes difficult to level an old character (this is different than just trying to trying to play a different character concept or attention deficit disorder for cases like SirC ). I will wager to say it is because (as Zeal said) a PC is shallow and doesn't have the RP background to sustain him/her beyond the ability to level quickly. The biggest hurdle for me was to become content with Nahum as he is at his current level (despite the fact that a newcomer a week ago now registers as impossible). In other words, I'm trying to assume that I'll never get to lvl 30. The goal I'm trying to pursue is to have a PC that will span the "ages". I.e. when all those epic grinding PC's come and go, people will still know who Nahum is. I plan on IC forum posting and just walking the Tradeway helping people. Anyway, just my 2 cents as well. I respect the "Sheritomo"'s of the server --- even more so than the multitude of epic level PC's that come and go. I'd prefer the constant twinkling of a star I come to recognize than the shooting stars that made no lasting impact to the server. When you lvl up too fast you dont even know or dont even use certain skills you have, cause quickly you get a new one. Loses the history of the character a bit. Its kinda weird to see a character today, and tomorrow see a demi-god. Imo its bad for RP. Makes my character feel like a fish sometimes, with zero long-term memory. Lol, its like each day you meet the same person, they're not the same anymore. Makes them a bit shallow if you ask me. But thats just me....each player plays as they see fit of course.
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RP XP
Dec 8, 2008 11:23:55 GMT -5
Post by Zealote on Dec 8, 2008 11:23:55 GMT -5
Oh yes, i like RP rewards, i used to give them when i was DM all the time. But, im sorry to say, people are getting a little but spoiled by us right. With all the relevels and xp refunds, all we do for the first hour we log is answer tells and try to help people. Im not complaining, i try to help when i can, and i hate to say no to someone that needs help. But tht steals our little time to set a plot or just log to watch people RP. I used to do that. Just log and look for a large group, sit down and watch them RP. Just ask SirC, i dont know if he remembers, but one of the first times i saw him with his characters as a DM (I knew him before i was a DM, as Nicotino, we made a 'players event' in the Temple of Tyr) I gave him xp just for RPing his Drunken Druid, and as i remember, he was really surprised to get that xp. 'You gave me xp? Why?' Was the tell i got from him at the time. Its cool to do that, and i agree 100% that this things encourage RP. But the purpose of RP is to RP, not to lvl up. When you enjoy your character and your RP, doesnt really matters the lvl you are. Also i agree with you on what you said. Its kinda frustrating to try to RP something and create your character while everyone is on the fastlane to epic stuff. But that you can get from my previous post. And i can assure you that the DM get much more fun making events for well built characters, over super powerful ones. When we do something, takes a while to plan and carefully select the mobs and NPCs to spawn, which is why we try to make it last and be as enjoyable as possible. For you and for us. Its not funny to spawn super mobs that no one can kill on top of lowbies heads. Its much more interesting to use low mobs vs low lvls, than high mobs vs high lvls. You know why? because the fight lasts longer, the players have time to use their little abilities, like a treasure they save for rough times. When you're epic, we need to use super mobs to bring some challenge (Not always, of course), and the fight ends very fast. With the mobs dead, or the players dead. And i, personally, hate to see characters dying. I think its ridiculous, for RP to die and get up 3 or 4 times on a event. And its our fault really, for not bringing enough balance. But its hard when you're DMing for epics. but dont get me wrong, i have nothing against epic characters man. Quite the oposite. I have 2. But i really am not very fond of fast lvling. Thats all. But again, its just my opinion, not my rules. And also it is really funny when you're playing your low lvl and you get the sense of danger in every mob. makes you build a strategy, fight better. Zeal
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RP XP
Dec 8, 2008 11:32:10 GMT -5
Post by His Masters Voice on Dec 8, 2008 11:32:10 GMT -5
From the perspective of the epic leveled newcomer Cephas is referring to, the munchkin builds do have their place in the server as being guild or quest fodder, no matter which way you cut the cards, and especially such for those of us on the other side of the alignment fence that do cater to their intended role. The malignant one sided spam of those wanting to save the world versus the ones bent on destroying it should indicate the uphill battle the latter has to face, and being a paperweight in PvP will never give your player the time of day when surrounded by trigger finger "roleplayers." I don't want to make a lasting impression with such characters of mine for lorebooks to retain timelessly, however I do intend to make a dent before he's eventually overwhelemed and permanently killed.
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RP XP
Dec 8, 2008 11:35:56 GMT -5
Post by Zealote on Dec 8, 2008 11:35:56 GMT -5
I don't want to make a lasting impression with such characters of mine for lorebooks to retain timelessly, however I do intend to make a dent before he's eventually overwhelemed and permanently killed.
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RP XP
Dec 8, 2008 11:36:42 GMT -5
Post by DM mithari on Dec 8, 2008 11:36:42 GMT -5
When you're epic, we need to use super mobs to bring some challenge (Not always, of course), and the fight ends very fast. With the mobs dead, or the players dead. Sadly, this is an inherent problem with the game, not a fault of any of you. High level play in general comes down to who gets the crits/has the enemy fail the important saving throw. Without giving an enemy really high hit points and a large blanket screen of immunities, they're not going to last. And at that point, what you're doing is stifling powers the players have painstakingly earned over their careers - powers they want to use and see function. Though few things will make a player giggle more happily than see that huge dragon roll a 1 on its Fortitude save against Finger of Death or Destruction or do hundreds of damage on a critical hit, it's nothing short of annoying for the DM and frequently the other players as well. Anyway, to the topic at hand. RP XP is good. DMs being available to watch and reward is awesome. In a perfect non-forced-RP world, all options should get you swanky powers at a comparable rate. The problem is finding the rate at which this is both equal for all ways and making the game have the level pace you like.
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RP XP
Dec 8, 2008 12:19:15 GMT -5
Post by DM Cephas on Dec 8, 2008 12:19:15 GMT -5
From the perspective of the epic leveled newcomer Cephas is referring to, the munchkin builds do have their place in the server as being guild or quest fodder, no matter which way you cut the cards, and especially such for those of us on the other side of the alignment fence that do cater to their intended role. The malignant one sided spam of those wanting to save the world versus the ones bent on destroying it should indicate the uphill battle the latter has to face, and being a paperweight in PvP will never give your player the time of day when surrounded by trigger finger "roleplayers." I don't want to make a lasting impression with such characters of mine for lorebooks to retain timelessly, however I do intend to make a dent before he's eventually overwhelemed and permanently killed. Valid points, TMV, but not everyone will willingly allow their PC's to be permadeathed. Some people (not all) have the attitude of getting to lvl 30 AND THEN RPing. Kinda the reverse IMO. But yes, if you have the intent of getting to a high level to be the epic bad guy and then perma-deathing him/her to start of a new bad guy (i.e. kinda acting like a mini-DM), I can see the logic in that. But I'm thinking that that mindset won't always be there. (speaking as a player) PS: If the "trigger finger" was in reference to our little PvP session, I did warn your PC. (Other than the meta-gaming aspect that you registered as impossible to me), when a big fully armored guy whose hand is right by his sword starts to walk up aggressively at Nahum, I'm not talking chances. I'm a mage and can't take much punishment. (You had my heart beating as the RP led up to PvP if that makes you feel any better )
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RP XP
Dec 8, 2008 13:14:40 GMT -5
Post by His Masters Voice on Dec 8, 2008 13:14:40 GMT -5
Valid points, TMV, but not everyone will willingly allow their PC's to be permadeathed. Some people (not all) have the attitude of getting to lvl 30 AND THEN RPing. Kinda the reverse IMO. But yes, if you have the intent of getting to a high level to be the epic bad guy and then perma-deathing him/her to start of a new bad guy (i.e. kinda acting like a mini-DM), I can see the logic in that. But I'm thinking that that mindset won't always be there. Fair enough, and I do agree that there is slim pickings regarding those that just want epic levels without doing something positive with it, but discrediting the opportunity, much less the option for players to acquire high level status implies a significant change in the direction of this server first and foremost. Not everyone is out to gain fame, fortune, and the approval of the playerbase which ends up catapulting people into preferred RP cliques as a result, something I'm seeing on a growing basis. As for permanent death, it's something I've always had heavily emphasized in my own servers, which seemed to have given people more value into their characters than being simply disposable. I expect every single one of my characters being killed in some fashionably epic, humorous, or tramatic way, else it stops being entertaining for even me. (speaking as a player) PS: If the "trigger finger" was in reference to our little PvP session, I did warn your PC. It was a little quick on the draw but I did instigate it. My "trigger finger" statement was aimed directly at those who barge into quests with a single thought on their line. Killing as many enemies as they can, grab all the loot they can, and gain some sort of XP bonus favor score with a DM. I've only been in a couple and already it's an immense disappointment when an event occuring is completely ignored, or pushed past by those who are looking to finalize the only direction the plot has publicly taken. DMs enjoy feedback through the action of the characters to the world around them, and players can feed more into the story going on by giving a little more effort than simply droning on for the XP gain. (Other than the meta-gaming aspect that you registered as impossible to me), Impossibly sexy? Yes I get that alot, a setting that should have been fixed so that examination of stats aren't permitted by the PCs will be thrown in this evening. (when a big fully armored guy whose hand is right by his sword starts to walk up aggressively at Nahum, I'm not talking chances. I'm a mage and can't take much punishment. Resting his hand on the hilt of his sword isn't gripping his sword with all the malice in the lands behind his intent, else every stave holding caster in the realm is a threat in that mindset, though I don't blame your response. My alignment fixes my IC interaction to the pseudo-poker playing guise of a hit and miss unknown relationship, not unwarranted chaotic abandon. ((You had my heart beating as the RP led up to PvP if that makes you feel any better ) Then I wasn't trying hard enough.
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RP XP
Dec 8, 2008 13:49:10 GMT -5
Post by DEV Akavit on Dec 8, 2008 13:49:10 GMT -5
Okay. I'll weigh in with with mighty words of wisdom to enlighten the minds of heroes and villains everwhere. lol
Seriously. For some time I did have a mindset of power-leveling (though to a somewhat lesser degree) to have one of the strongest PC's on the server. That was a big mistake as I merely ended up taking much of the fun out of my favorite PC. That PC was Flail. The problem turned out to be that I spent a great deal of time crushing skeletons, minotaurs and all manner of mobs to shoot him up to level 25. So for half the time I had him I was farming gold and xp instead of simply enjoying the character himself. As it turned out, when I did reach that high level there was little thrill in combat as either he would crush a veritable army or I would be terrified of losing xp to some risky encounter. Not fun at all.
Hence the switch to playing more RP-oriented PC's. Now I can watch others shoot past me in level without batting an eye. The fact is that it's so much more fun to enjoy a PC at the moment than to fret over reaching some far off level. And I suspect that I am now enjoying my time here more than many of the players.
Right now I'm primarily using three out of my seven PC's:
Golem: Fun for RP and I can actually enjoy limited grinding with him since its so mesmerizing to watch the massive damage inflicted by his halberd.
Kerto: The PW needs more Fist members. Enough said.
Sheritomo: I'll admit she's my PC. lol When I first came up with this concept it just seemed like something fun to try out. Her character blossomed far beyond anything I had ever expected or even intended. What's fun about her is that I never never make any attempt to gain levels. Consequently I can take an XP hit or loss of gold to a crash or death and not even feel the pain (except the one time lag, sending a tell, and a sudden ambush/critical hit killed her while 200 points from level 10.) Something I did learn about with this PC is RP power. I suspect that before she ever reaches level 15 she will be able to move mountains with far greater ease than a trio of level 30's. hehehe.
When the server goes final look out for a batch of new PC's. I've got them in the planning now.
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RP XP
Dec 8, 2008 16:00:16 GMT -5
Post by DM Cephas on Dec 8, 2008 16:00:16 GMT -5
Fair enough, and I do agree that there is slim pickings regarding those that just want epic levels without doing something positive with it, but discrediting the opportunity, much less the option for players to acquire high level status implies a significant change in the direction of this server first and foremost. Not everyone is out to gain fame, fortune, and the approval of the playerbase which ends up catapulting people into preferred RP cliques as a result, something I'm seeing on a growing basis. Resting his hand on the hilt of his sword isn't gripping his sword with all the malice in the lands behind his intent, else every stave holding caster in the realm is a threat in that mindset, though I don't blame your response. My alignment fixes my IC interaction to the pseudo-poker playing guise of a hit and miss unknown relationship, not unwarranted chaotic abandon. Very true that some are completely happy grinding away and, in it of itself, I have no problems with it. And yes, the opportunity is afforded for people to do it and it's not something that will be prevented. (Josh set this as vision and we'll stick with it.) I hope I didn't come off implying otherwise. It sometimes affects other players though and as can be noticed in this thread. I was merely giving my opinion (hence "IMO"). True that being part of a guild or any type of RP clique isn't for everyone either. But you have to think of the other side of it. "Birds of a feather flock together" If you enjoyed RP, would you hang out a lot with a person that is solely dedicated to grinding (i.e. "Hey, you want to grind some kobolds?") The opposite is also true, extreme grinders will not have the patience to sit through conversation. As for our PvP, one small comment on that: It doesn't take much to pull out a blade, but it takes a bit more to get a spell off. You were danger-close and you kept advancing. And staves are easily RP'ed as walking sticks. The RP was fun though! I'm curious how this will turn out. Anyway, I think we're straying from the original intent of the thread...
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RP XP
Dec 8, 2008 18:03:27 GMT -5
Post by Zealote on Dec 8, 2008 18:03:27 GMT -5
Impossibly sexy? Yes I get that alot, a setting that should have been fixed so that examination of stats aren't permitted by the PCs will be thrown in this evening. THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! I've asked for this a long time ago! Finally! Begone metagamers! Altough i have one small comment to make. Picture this: You have a character, build to you with all your creative mind, focusing on how to build a neat and realistic virtual person. You take your time to RP and to get your lvls, not concearned on how strong you are, but how realistic your character is. You reach lvl 10 after a month and consider yourself a good and balanced build. You value your skills as they took a long time achieve. Then, walking by the Tradeway, you meet another character that has never RP with any of your characters, you dont know him at all, except for being a heavy grinder. He spends all his play hours killing stuff and running around, not speaking a word with anyone, not for good, not for evil, not for neutral (If that makes any sense at all) But this time he talks to you. And hes not pleasent. He wants all your gold and speaks as a bandit. You know hes higher lvl than you. You know he has been grinding like crazy for a long time. What do you do? He is RPing now. You like to RP. But do you RP with him after he grinded for several weeks to be super-epic while you stood there taking your time? Do you give in to his urge to PvP you after he got all his xp? Or do you ignore him like he was ignoring everyone earlier? Would you say: ////err excuse me man, but you were not RPing before, why do you want to RP now? Because now no one can beat you? And you can RP the mean vilain with no fear? Im sorry, but i wont PvP you. Well, this is a dilema that has been puzzling me for some time now. I wouldnt deny the RP, i dont do this with anyone. But it is frustrating nontheless to see the same guy that wasnt RPing with anyone, that was ignoring you walking by the road, that passed by you while you were talking to a few people (Even bumped into you, as some do) now wanting to RP the evil mean guy when you have no chance to victory. Yeah, of course our PvP doesnt let you lose xp, and means nothing if you dont want to RP and die to PvP, but it is still frustrating. Im not trying to say anything here people, its just a thought i wanted to share, since was bothering me for some time. Can anyone comment on that? Agreeing or not, doesnt matter, but its just something i wanted to bring to the conversation. (Yeah, i know it has nothing to do with the original thread, but since the subject brought us here, hehe why not?) So? ;D Zeal
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RP XP
Dec 8, 2008 18:31:44 GMT -5
Post by broham2 on Dec 8, 2008 18:31:44 GMT -5
Yeah I know exactly what you mean, and its not a fun situation to be in... It has gone so far that I've tried to RP with a character and get them into a guild and I've been told "//I gotta grind some more before I think about guilds" On one hand I understand that if your character's back story has him arriving in BG as a former soldier (for example) you dont want to start off RPing your guy as lvl 1, ok whatever.. but to not RP until you can RP the jerk with impunity isnt cool and isn't fun for anyone else.
But wow man YAY I am excited for the descriptions to be gone! I suspect there will be a lot more PvP now as a result, but I could be mistaken.
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RP XP
Dec 8, 2008 19:14:40 GMT -5
Post by His Masters Voice on Dec 8, 2008 19:14:40 GMT -5
But wow man YAY I am excited for the descriptions to be gone! I suspect there will be a lot more PvP now as a result, but I could be mistaken. Technically speaking, because there's a set number of options a player could choose from for aesthetics, it will be tough to decide whether or not a player is as badass as he looks, for many players, a low level achievement. Half of the fun is the guess work.
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RP XP
Dec 8, 2008 20:11:21 GMT -5
Post by Zealote on Dec 8, 2008 20:11:21 GMT -5
Yes, bluffs will work as they should be. As well as intimidation. Its perfect. But i suspect the otherway around Broham2. People will be more carefull before engaging someone they cant tell if its stronger than them.
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RP XP
Dec 8, 2008 20:47:02 GMT -5
Post by broham2 on Dec 8, 2008 20:47:02 GMT -5
I guess I was looking at it from the perspective of my Hin. Who is gonna be afraid of a little girl who is acting all innocent? Lol.
Sadly, I will be taken pretty easily if I am alone. Not Lol.
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RP XP
Dec 9, 2008 0:13:26 GMT -5
Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Dec 9, 2008 0:13:26 GMT -5
Although i have one small comment to make. Picture this: You have a character, build to you with all your creative mind, focusing on how to build a neat and realistic virtual person. You take your time to RP and to get your lvls, not concearned on how strong you are, but how realistic your character is. You reach lvl 10 after a month and consider yourself a good and balanced build. You value your skills as they took a long time achieve. Then, walking by the Tradeway, you meet another character that has never RP with any of your characters, you dont know him at all, except for being a heavy grinder. He spends all his play hours killing stuff and running around, not speaking a word with anyone, not for good, not for evil, not for neutral (If that makes any sense at all) But this time he talks to you. And hes not pleasent. He wants all your gold and speaks as a bandit. You know hes higher lvl than you. You know he has been grinding like crazy for a long time. What do you do? He is RPing now. You like to RP. But do you RP with him after he grinded for several weeks to be super-epic while you stood there taking your time? Do you give in to his urge to PvP you after he got all his xp? Or do you ignore him like he was ignoring everyone earlier? Would you say: ////err excuse me man, but you were not RPing before, why do you want to RP now? Because now no one can beat you? And you can RP the mean vilain with no fear? Im sorry, but i wont PvP you. Well, this is a dilema that has been puzzling me for some time now. I wouldnt deny the RP, i dont do this with anyone. But it is frustrating nontheless to see the same guy that wasnt RPing with anyone, that was ignoring you walking by the road, that passed by you while you were talking to a few people (Even bumped into you, as some do) now wanting to RP the evil mean guy when you have no chance to victory. Yeah, of course our PvP doesnt let you lose xp, and means nothing if you dont want to RP and die to PvP, but it is still frustrating. Im not trying to say anything here people, its just a thought i wanted to share, since was bothering me for some time. Can anyone comment on that? Comment? I could add a lot of comments, but I'll just put one in. I've seen people do that on this server and it really, really annoys me that people are only willing to RP once they know they can turn your mid-level character into a pile of dust in one blow. There's my one comment.
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