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Post by DEV Akavit on Oct 5, 2008 15:01:56 GMT -5
I guess I would have to experience the new system to form an opinion on it. I do know that I enjoyed the magic system in the Baldur's Gate series better than that of NW2 so it is unlikely that further changes will be in the direction that I prefer.
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Post by DM blessedone on Oct 6, 2008 21:50:41 GMT -5
Coming from an 'Old School PnP' guy here...I would have loved to see a more balanced blend of the AD&D 2E system as well as the 3.0 system with a hint of the original D&D system and the artwork of the 2E days. I.E. - Get rid of ThAC0 from 2E and kept the DC idea along with the way to distribute XP from 3.0. Keep the 3.0 skills system, because, let's face it...2E had a system that kind of sucked and was not very user friendly for play. (( Kinda like that ThACO )) Either do the darn Minis right, or leave them the.....alone! Sure, I remember buying up the old Pewter Figurines and having to spend hours painting them, but, if I have just spent that much money for a plastic, pre-painted mini system and they look like they do? Get rid of a lot of those Prestige Classes / Feats that they have.....they are getting out of hand. Go old school with the Prestige Classes and keep 'em kinda real and just trim the fat with the Feats. Sure, this is fantasy RP...but, it is not *name brand here* Super Heroes....This is Dungeons and Dragons.....Swords, Magick, Knights and Rogues! Bards telling tall tales of those who ventured forth into that dungeon. (( when knowing full well when you were 1st lvl. your whole group probably ran screaming from thse 4 Goblins! ))...So on and so on. For me, D&D 4E is a shell of it's former self....Of course, this is just an old school, nostalgic loving AD&D 2E lover who went 3.0 and just misses the good ole days and I am sure the really old schoolers out there ( D&D ) did not like the change that AD&D 2E brought to the table. I will now get off of my soap box about D&D and the direction I would have loved to see it go. I for one, will not be spending the money needed to get started now that I have a fat collection of 3.0/3.5 and they have gone in a direction I do not like. ANYWHO, GAME ON!!!! That is what it is really all about....If you like the rules...then use em.
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Post by broham2 on Oct 14, 2008 13:02:35 GMT -5
I prefer the 2nd Edition myself.. although I really liked the 'Players Options' and 'DM Options' books that came out. The various 'kits' books (The Complete... Handbook, the Wizards & Priests of the Realms or whatever it was called) were dope too, as they gave some local feel to a character and just reading them provided a lot of hooks and ideas.
We quit playing paper DND shortly after that.. after we'd spent probably a thousand dollars to amass every single rule book, adventure, supplement, etc regarding the realms and then learned that 3rd edition was coming to make it all worthless. It kind of bursted my bubble.
I am still struggling with some of the concepts here in NWN2, like saves and what not (what ever happened to saving against 'Rods, Staves, and Wands'? Lol).. but its fun still.
4th Edition FR just sounds ridiculous to me, and wipes out any and all realmslore i know that makes it feel like 'home' for me.
Just my opinion. I'm just glad that this PW is set in the 'right' era of the Realms.
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Post by DEV Jlf2n on Oct 14, 2008 13:16:40 GMT -5
I'm just to old school. I have no problem with them trying to reinvent the franchise in the hopes of returning it to its former glory. But I just can't get into it.
Actually with the new stuff now the old stuff seems that much cooler to me in a wierd way. Now it really seems ancient and magical. The Forgotten Realms will always be to me the years of 0 DR to 1370 DR or so.
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Post by broham2 on Oct 14, 2008 13:27:53 GMT -5
Why didn't they just create a new world for 4th Edition, and leave the Realms out of this.. its not like it can possibly have a Realms feel after all of the changes..
The Time of Troubles, I thought, did a good job transitioning everything along.. and it maintained the realms feel. I just dont get it.
Bah!
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Post by DM blessedone on Oct 14, 2008 13:28:46 GMT -5
Same here....I just recently came across my old PHB from AD&D 2E and was reading through it all over again.....*sighs* I miss the days when one had to actually be "special" (i.e.- better have good die rolls for their initial ablities on PC creation) to be a Paladin/Ranger/Druid or Bard and Multiclass with a Paladin? What was that? Anywho....going to step back off of that box again.... *NOTE - OOOOHHHH brings back memories of Gibberlings!!!
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Bahlzeron
Member
sometimes it is better to keep ones mouth shut and seem a fool, than open it and remove all doubt
Posts: 43
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Post by Bahlzeron on Oct 14, 2008 14:02:23 GMT -5
LOL 2nd ED.. what I started DND on.. 3rd came out and I said "never".. but here I am today.. in love with the 3E rule set . As far as 4E goes.. I'll see.. it doesnt look too great and in fact doesn't look simplified at all (half expected to see THac0 in use again), but time will tell.
I never understood the need to have the lore/ story of DND to change with the rule sets. Just 'cause the gameplay rules changes doesnt mean the realms have to change too.. but I geuss it gives WOTC something to do in between editions. I've always been a big fan of "If it ain't broke, don't break it"; on that note, yes I think 2e was horribly broken, THac0 being bass-ackwards was the first thing I pointed out when I learned to play.. adding-subtracting to add er subtract..err... yeah it still confuses me...lol
SoZ.. well I got mixed feelings.. they're not raising the level cap, which pisses me off, but they are adding a bit of content, and changing some of the aspects of crafting...from what I caught of it it's supposed to be a bit simpler (I can't figure out crafting right now). I hope they plan on raising the cap sometime in the very close future. Pfft 4 classes with only 30 levels available might as well give us unlimited classes with that level restriction. I really do feel as if I'm bein cheated and pretty much gettin bored with games in general due to the industry as a whole on how they are producing decreasing quality and increasing how much they charge for it.
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Post by needcoffee on Oct 16, 2008 0:14:32 GMT -5
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Post by DM haunted on Oct 16, 2008 1:00:43 GMT -5
Omg...4th ed is not that bad for FR....there is some interesting lore involved and plus give it some time as well.So far every novel I have read within the 4th ed setting is pretty awesome.
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Post by DM haunted on Oct 24, 2008 23:41:32 GMT -5
I hope there is more than the 2 new classes(Swashbuckler and Doomguide)cuz everyone and their mamma is goin to use one of them for a bit.
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Post by Iceshard on Oct 26, 2008 11:03:35 GMT -5
A new warlock class is also in there, and a couple new races. They didnt add a whole lot. -Ice
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thegnomeherder
Senior Member
Bhaal, the Lord of Gettin' sum
Posts: 356
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Post by thegnomeherder on Nov 2, 2008 21:22:43 GMT -5
To me as an old school D&D fan they've certainly lost everything about D&D that I loved, I agree with Zeal, the Baldur's Gate series and Ice Wind Dale series were amazing. To me regardless of how much of a powerful warrior you are a party of kobolds should always be able to kill you with a hail of arrows xD
Also whats with this god obsession the D&D's have been chasing? Everything nowadays has to do with other planes or some god doing something bad that eventually leads to your character becoming said god or joining him amongst the heavens wooo
Personally, I think Dragons should still be near unstoppable, epic levels shouldn't exist and demons and gods intervening in your daily life should be almost non-existant. People living in the realms mostly go their entire lives without ever seeing a demon or a drow or some god wrecking up the place.
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lorgin2003
Senior Member
Dyn-o-miiiiite!!!
Posts: 373
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Post by lorgin2003 on Nov 13, 2008 11:55:23 GMT -5
i finally got a chance to look over the 4th edition stuff, and from what i've seen, i like it. it looks like a combination of 2nd and 3rd edition, with a touch of VtM. not as much customization, but not as much unnecessary crap (aka. gather information), plus a few neat abilities.
granted, the character sheets are extremely cluttered, but i always make up my own. overall, it looks like it should be able to bring in the younger crowd, while be a refreshing blast from the past for the old school players.
i would even go as far to say that if it were released instead of 3rd edition as 3rd edition, there would have been very few complaints. instead, 3rd edition (and 3.5 by proxy) will probably end up being the odd cousin in the D&D family. it was just too much of a change all at once, and now 4th edition seems to be doing some damage control. obviously, it's going to irritate people that they can't do as much now, since it seems closer to 2nd edition in that regard.
i'm certainly looking forward to see how it progresses.
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davidb
Senior Member
Posts: 300
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Post by davidb on Nov 17, 2008 19:38:08 GMT -5
Some rules I really hate.
Not because they're wrong, if this was a completely new game I would think it's very good overall.
It's because they're so *not* DnD. Like not memorizing spells anymore, or the emphasys on miniatures & squares.
Plus the whole "dumbed down" thing, like if they were thinking you make rules easier and suddenly PnP roleplaying will become a mainstream product. Yeah, sure.
Certainly 3.0 had a problem with multiclassing, as it was so unlimited and rewarding you couldn't see the benefit of not multiclassing. Yet it can be fixed without making a completely "alien" 4th edition.
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