Post by quadhund on Jul 28, 2008 12:05:57 GMT -5
I would like to preface this with the fact that I think this server is great. I would like to add a bit of criticism and I hope it is not taken negatively. Many of the things I suggest are probably in the works, and I haven't had the time to read the rest of the forums to see what is or is not. Forgive me, I just don't have that much time . Also, I'll try not to comment too much on the RP side of things, because this is the first time i have played on an RP lite server (I am used to much more intensive RP, and strict guidelines of PnP D&D). Once again, I'll try to be coherent and positive in my critique (and will likely continue to play here at least until my own PW gets off the ground).
First off, I would like to mention the economy. I have seen it mentioned a few times on the boards here, so I suspect it will go through some evolution. You know there is a problem when you see above level 15 players farming wolves in the starting area, because it is the most lucrative spot for loot. I would imagine that the economy is trying to be kept low in order to keep this a low magic server (this may be a false assumption). However, keeping the economy low hinders gameplay more than keeping the server low magic. Because of the way the xp is distributed (it is relatively high from my experience) the player will gain levels rather quickly. In order to maintain a challenging CR, the player will need to fight tougher monsters. Monster CRs were designed with the concept of player level AND equivalent treasure based on that level. Thus what you have (and are currently seeing) are players not able to continue to fight challenging encounters due to lack of equivalent wealth. So the options are to either farm wolves for money and build up equivalent wealth, or farm goblins (which have little challenge but yield a GREAT deal of xp for that challenge ... gobo sappers specifically). My recommendation would be to triple or quadruple the chances of finding a chest on an npc and placing some sort of limit on the number of pelts that can be turned in (possibly by level or daily restriction). You do not need to increase the magic of the server, but you need to be able to allow your PCs to carry supplies into battle that will allow them to last. 290 cure crit or serious, i cant remember, is extremely hard to justify in this economy, but entirely necessary to fight wyverns.
Second, gradual challenge. I was delighted to see that this was in place, for the most part. Wolves led to undead or bandits, led to gnolls, led to lizardfolk and bugbears, and orcs and goblins. I am happily slaughtering the denizens of evil, enjoying their screams as I triumph from one challenge to the next (dying occassionally). Then I go south from Beregost. Wyvern that kills me in two hits. Holy Schnikeys! Wow, that's gotta be one high CR. Turns out, they are less challenging that gobo sappers. Now, I am sure this is meant to change as well and probably difficult to manage with limited space (I am not sure of the entire size of the module). After a few more levels, I decided to venture down south again, barely able to kill wyverns on my own. Next I found hill giants, capable of turning me into adventurer jelly (AB 26 means that you need AC 37 just for 50% chance to miss). My recommendation is to either spread these guys out, or if that's not possible, make the gobos work for their xp (actually make them challenging cause as they are, they yield better xp than ogres and are less challenging). That would give players a better indication of what challenges they should expect in an area.
Party play. I am not sure what the focus of this server is supposed to be: party play or single player. If it is party play, then the xp system does not encourage party play. Whenever you start cutting xp for the number of players in party (i know PnP does work like this, but the DM is there to see everyone gets a fair share) you are encouraging most players to not party. I know challenges are easier in parties, and warrant reduced xp, but you have to also consider that loot is being reduced due to sharing of treasure. With the already tight economy, players are much better off soloing than partying up. I would recommend changing the xp table or distribution mechanism (I am not sure how to do these things, but I would like to know) such that multiple party members due not cut xp. Also, from my experience with this on another server, it would also be best to prolly implement a max party size. With this system in place, you can (and prolly would) see groups with 10 or more people in it so that the challenges becoming almost negligent but yield decent xp.
Finally, resting time. In low magic worlds, primary spellcasters have a leg up at high levels (the potency of their spells generally cannot be defeated by fighters with low magic equipment). I would argue that, with the resting time as it is, you are giving spellcasters (and primarily wizards/sorcs) a huge advantage. The reason I single wizards and sorcs out as having a huge advantage is due to their number of damage dealing spells. Even if you doubled the resting time, spellcasters would still have an advantage, but reduced to where they might use buffs instead of blasts. I can tell you now, my third level druid was capable of taking on gobos that my 7th level ranger had difficulty with.
I hope that was not too negative and presented clearly. Those are my critiques, and everything else on the server I thought to be quite good (especially the build work).
I do have one comment to the players: when engaging in player/player interaction, please try not to rest in the middle of it. Either wait for an appropriate time to rest, or make an in character excuse to rest. Even though this is RP lite, when a pc falls asleep in front of you while you are talking to them, it does break the immersion.
First off, I would like to mention the economy. I have seen it mentioned a few times on the boards here, so I suspect it will go through some evolution. You know there is a problem when you see above level 15 players farming wolves in the starting area, because it is the most lucrative spot for loot. I would imagine that the economy is trying to be kept low in order to keep this a low magic server (this may be a false assumption). However, keeping the economy low hinders gameplay more than keeping the server low magic. Because of the way the xp is distributed (it is relatively high from my experience) the player will gain levels rather quickly. In order to maintain a challenging CR, the player will need to fight tougher monsters. Monster CRs were designed with the concept of player level AND equivalent treasure based on that level. Thus what you have (and are currently seeing) are players not able to continue to fight challenging encounters due to lack of equivalent wealth. So the options are to either farm wolves for money and build up equivalent wealth, or farm goblins (which have little challenge but yield a GREAT deal of xp for that challenge ... gobo sappers specifically). My recommendation would be to triple or quadruple the chances of finding a chest on an npc and placing some sort of limit on the number of pelts that can be turned in (possibly by level or daily restriction). You do not need to increase the magic of the server, but you need to be able to allow your PCs to carry supplies into battle that will allow them to last. 290 cure crit or serious, i cant remember, is extremely hard to justify in this economy, but entirely necessary to fight wyverns.
Second, gradual challenge. I was delighted to see that this was in place, for the most part. Wolves led to undead or bandits, led to gnolls, led to lizardfolk and bugbears, and orcs and goblins. I am happily slaughtering the denizens of evil, enjoying their screams as I triumph from one challenge to the next (dying occassionally). Then I go south from Beregost. Wyvern that kills me in two hits. Holy Schnikeys! Wow, that's gotta be one high CR. Turns out, they are less challenging that gobo sappers. Now, I am sure this is meant to change as well and probably difficult to manage with limited space (I am not sure of the entire size of the module). After a few more levels, I decided to venture down south again, barely able to kill wyverns on my own. Next I found hill giants, capable of turning me into adventurer jelly (AB 26 means that you need AC 37 just for 50% chance to miss). My recommendation is to either spread these guys out, or if that's not possible, make the gobos work for their xp (actually make them challenging cause as they are, they yield better xp than ogres and are less challenging). That would give players a better indication of what challenges they should expect in an area.
Party play. I am not sure what the focus of this server is supposed to be: party play or single player. If it is party play, then the xp system does not encourage party play. Whenever you start cutting xp for the number of players in party (i know PnP does work like this, but the DM is there to see everyone gets a fair share) you are encouraging most players to not party. I know challenges are easier in parties, and warrant reduced xp, but you have to also consider that loot is being reduced due to sharing of treasure. With the already tight economy, players are much better off soloing than partying up. I would recommend changing the xp table or distribution mechanism (I am not sure how to do these things, but I would like to know) such that multiple party members due not cut xp. Also, from my experience with this on another server, it would also be best to prolly implement a max party size. With this system in place, you can (and prolly would) see groups with 10 or more people in it so that the challenges becoming almost negligent but yield decent xp.
Finally, resting time. In low magic worlds, primary spellcasters have a leg up at high levels (the potency of their spells generally cannot be defeated by fighters with low magic equipment). I would argue that, with the resting time as it is, you are giving spellcasters (and primarily wizards/sorcs) a huge advantage. The reason I single wizards and sorcs out as having a huge advantage is due to their number of damage dealing spells. Even if you doubled the resting time, spellcasters would still have an advantage, but reduced to where they might use buffs instead of blasts. I can tell you now, my third level druid was capable of taking on gobos that my 7th level ranger had difficulty with.
I hope that was not too negative and presented clearly. Those are my critiques, and everything else on the server I thought to be quite good (especially the build work).
I do have one comment to the players: when engaging in player/player interaction, please try not to rest in the middle of it. Either wait for an appropriate time to rest, or make an in character excuse to rest. Even though this is RP lite, when a pc falls asleep in front of you while you are talking to them, it does break the immersion.