Faithless Cleric? Huh?

[nael]

Recently I was playing around with building a Faithless character in Vordan's Hero Creator, and I picked the first few levels of monk, and then for sh*'s and giggles I multi-classed in some cleric. Much to my surprise it allowed me to level up as a Cleric without forcing me to pick a deity.

IIRC, doesn't divine spellcasting *require* a patron deity for spells? Looking back on the NWN2 OC, Bishop, a Faithless ranger, gains Divine spells so was this an oversight on Obsidian's part or can the Faithless indeed gain Divine spellcasting somehow? Or maybe this is something unique to leveling a character in VHC?

Thanks.

[DM mithari]

I smell an Obsidian screwup. FR lore indeed requires you to choose a deity to gain divine spells.

[DM haunted]

Yep.

[steelforgedsword]

Yeah, it's the Obsidtards on this one, much like the stormlord powers (lore wise) are granted by Talos, but any toon with any deity can take them.

[ovarf]

actually in PnP you did not have to pick a god to be a cleric. you could just be a priest of the pantheon which honestly should be a lot more common then it is.

If there is evidence that all the gods are real why would people just pick one and ignore or claim the rest to be false? The whole culture is polytheistic but i think a lot of pepole are hung up on a monotheistic world view and cling to a false notion that there can be only one where thous would acually be the outliers not the norm

[DM mithari]

In most D&D settings (including Greyhawk, which is the default detailed in the standard rules), yes, you're right. A cleric wouldn't have to pick a deity.

Forgotten Realms overrides that, however, and goes further to demand even druids and rangers must pick a deity.

[DM haunted]

Yep part 2.....With the exception to dwarves,Ive seen dwarven clerics get spells from like 2-3 deities of their pantheon....And some chosen few as well...Like Qilue or whatever her name is,is granted spells from Mystra and Eilistraee.

[broham2]

The way I have thought a few of my characters out.. they worship a few gods of the pantheon (especially when this makes clear sense - Tyr, Torm, Ilmater... Mystra, Azuth, Denier, etc.) always having a 'patron' god that they prefer above others, and if a cleric of the pantheon this 'patron' would be the primary god worshipped and the one that provides spells.

Since gods in the realms gain strength based on number of worshippers, it becomes fairly clear why the gods would meddle so much in mortal affairs, and demand that they alone receive the prayers.

[Zealote]

*Wonders why Tyr is a Greater Deity, because IG, everyone hates Tyrrans*

[Jiszo]

Mar 25, 2009 11:10:23 GMT -5 ovarf said:

actually in PnP you did not have to pick a god to be a cleric. you could just be a priest of the pantheon which honestly should be a lot more common then it is.

If there is evidence that all the gods are real why would people just pick one and ignore or claim the rest to be false? The whole culture is polytheistic but i think a lot of pepole are hung up on a monotheistic world view and cling to a false notion that there can be only one where thous would acually be the outliers not the norm

I agree, well put.

[Jiszo]

Mar 25, 2009 11:16:22 GMT -5 DM mithari said:

In most D&D settings (including Greyhawk, which is the default detailed in the standard rules), yes, you're right. A cleric wouldn't have to pick a deity.

Forgotten Realms overrides that, however, and goes further to demand even druids and rangers must pick a deity.

That is a valid point, I would think with good rp reasons you could get around that, but it would have to be really good rp.

[nael]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

At this point I don't think the character would be benefited either RP or buildwise. In my experience, monks really only shine at epic levels if you concentrate on the monk and perhaps throw in a couple of PrC levels to give yourself some interesting abilities. Besides, at this point I would take HiPS over an "afterthought style" Bless or Haste any day

I was also curious to see what others thought of a Faithless Cleric as I had trouble finding any direct information by searching on the Internet or the player books themselves. From what I gather, the Faithless are a very, very small minority in Faerun, so I don't think the question has probably been asked much. I think I RP my Faithless character well though, as he has a good many reasons for carrying on as he does.

[DM mithari]

Mar 25, 2009 23:12:44 GMT -5 Jiszo said:

Mar 25, 2009 11:16:22 GMT -5 DM mithari said:

In most D&D settings (including Greyhawk, which is the default detailed in the standard rules), yes, you're right. A cleric wouldn't have to pick a deity.

Forgotten Realms overrides that, however, and goes further to demand even druids and rangers must pick a deity.

That is a valid point, I would think with good rp reasons you could get around that, but it would have to be really good rp.

'

You'd have to be REALLY creative. The basic hardline in the Forgotten Realms is "no god, no divine spells".
Basic Greyhawk lets clerics be devoted to a "philosophy" rather than a religion, but that opens a whole can of worms that usually just ends up being a pain to deal with and every cleric and his mother ends up having a "philosophy" which they hardly even flesh out or even have a semblance of roleplaying coherence. Especially since the "philosophy" approach is the only PnP way to get to pick domains "freely".

Play it safe, stick to the setting and pick a deity when you're a cleric/druid/paladin/ranger/favoured soul(/spirit shaman). This is for the better for everyone involved, believe you me.

[Jiszo]

why spirit shamans, I know there divine casters but religion to me doesn't seem to play a big part in there casting abilities. From what I understand at least they get there abilities from making packs with spirits, not from serving a god. I could be wrong, but is that not the case?

[DM mithari]

Those spirits have to get their powers from somewhere too.

Seriously though, the reason I put it in parenthesis is because it is sort of a gray area. This is a judgment call to make, because Spirit Shaman don't actually have any writeup for them as to how they could work in the Forgotten Realms. My general opinion is that some deity is bound to stand behind that too, just like any divine magic (such as it is). Either way, the shaman might not know it, might not care, or outright refuse to acknowledge that there is any deity behind it.