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Post by DM mithari on Feb 11, 2009 12:20:22 GMT -5
Rhetorical questions. How many are Talassans because they want the Stormlord class? How many took the Stormlord class because their cleric is a Talassan? Food for thought.
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Post by luna on Feb 11, 2009 13:26:31 GMT -5
I've never understood peoples fears of "powerbuilding". It helps with more than powerbuilding. It seems like everyone used to have HIPs which didn't really make sense. And there used to be quite a few armored wizards (a wizard with 1 fighter level) who by some RP miracle would get their armor off, buff, and get their armor back on in one minute. This is another build that doesn't really make sense. Since Rule 14 was implemented I see a lot less of this stuff.
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Post by Zealote on Feb 11, 2009 17:37:05 GMT -5
Oh I miss BG1...there was no way you could do something like that back then...
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Post by DM mithari on Feb 11, 2009 18:35:41 GMT -5
Oh, my beloved cleric/mage, how I miss you.
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Post by shoujo on Feb 11, 2009 18:49:08 GMT -5
Tristan,
I don't think the 3 level restriction *really* hurts power builds, so from a power building perspective, I wouldn't worry about it.
The common dips I believe are fighter 1 for bonus feat and proficiencies, rogue 1 for access to tumble/rogue skills, bard 1 for inspire courage and bard skills, monk 1 for wis AC/flurry, SD 1 for HiPS, and cleric 1 for domain feats, proficiencies, and access to divine might/shield. Of those, most are still fairly nice even with the higher level requirements.
Fighter 1 becomes fighter 3 if you're really short on levels. While you end with a dead level, it still nets you a bonus feat from fighter 2. Fighter 4 would make more sense IMO since that way you get weapon spec or a bonus feat at least. It's also a fairly common stopping point for fighter dips.
Rogue 1 becomes 3, netting you evasion, an extra d6 sneak, and skill points. Not too shabby. I'd say rogue 4 would be nice for uncanny dodge, but there've been reports that it doesn't work so that's a bit iffy currently.
Bard 1 becomes bard 4 which is pretty nice if you can hit 14 charisma (with items). That nets you heroism on top of inspire courage, making that 1 BAB loss for bard 1 a 2 AB gain thanks to heroism's +2 AB and courage's +1 AB.
Shadowdancer 1 becomes 3 and while the third level stinks, level 2 isn't shabby since it nets you evasion at the very least. If you don't have able learner and the same class skills, delaying SD 2 and 3 could let you pump class skills like tumble with minimal skill point loss too.
Monk 1 and cleric 1 are hurt the most. At least monk 2 nets you evasion and monk 3 still mind so it's not a total loss and adding wis to AC and flurry while shifted still makes it worthwhile for a druid. Cleric 1 is a bit meh though considering wis is a popular dump stat. If you can hit 14 wis though, that's access to prot vs evil (mindspell immunity), 8 min of +1 AB from bless (2 copies of bless), 8 min of a +4 zoo buff, aid, or living undeath (crit immunity).
You can still multiclass as much as you want, so humans don't get screwed over or anything either.
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Post by baldursgateway on Apr 18, 2009 16:38:31 GMT -5
Oh I miss BG1...there was no way you could do something like that back then... Hehe I played through BG1,BG2, and ToB with a Fighter/Mage. He would regularly cast Stoneskin/Mirror Image and any other buffs then throw on his full plate and shield. Really not fair.
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Post by mingming on Apr 18, 2009 20:38:53 GMT -5
Oh I miss BG1...there was no way you could do something like that back then... Yes there was! It was called being human and carefully dual-classing your levels so you timed the XP earned ratio for minimal loss of class abilities as you worked the penalties off. By the time a talented human was done, you could potentially have 3-4 classes tucked under your belt and kick butt at all of them. This was the advantage of humans in First and Second Edition D&D, which was what BG was built off of.
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Post by Zealote on Apr 18, 2009 20:59:43 GMT -5
Oh I miss BG1...there was no way you could do something like that back then... Yes there was! It was called being human and carefully dual-classing your levels so you timed the XP earned ratio for minimal loss of class abilities as you worked the penalties off. By the time a talented human was done, you could potentially have 3-4 classes tucked under your belt and kick butt at all of them. This was the advantage of humans in First and Second Edition D&D, which was what BG was built off of. Yup, but Dual-Class doesnt work like Multiclass now, you could not go back to the previous class. But as you said, carefully, it could be done, but not easy as it is now.
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Post by DEV Jlf2n on Apr 19, 2009 11:13:38 GMT -5
The reason for the PB rule has nothing to do with RP. Its for balance. Later on we want to add things that force grouping and large scale raids. Thats not going to work with uber pwntastic Monk/StormLord/Bard/Favored Soul/Blackguards running around. Who needs to be in raid when three buddies can get together with the same class/build and nuke the boss. It's just not what we are going for.
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Post by tormaksaber on Apr 22, 2009 4:25:35 GMT -5
Raids? I'd be amazed if you can get a ten man raid to function on NWN2 where getting those 10 men buffed and in the same place together without crashes or lag is a raid unto itself.
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Post by mingming on Apr 22, 2009 5:32:20 GMT -5
I like he idea of grouping and parties, but mention of "raids" makes me groan and want to build a time-machine so I can go back in time and destroy Blizzard for ever creating World of Warcraft. I hate MMO mentalities and want them to go away from my online D&D experiences.
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Post by auramin on Apr 22, 2009 5:41:44 GMT -5
I like he idea of grouping and parties, but mention of "raids" makes me groan and want to build a time-machine so I can go back in time and destroy Blizzard for ever creating World of Warcraft. I hate MMO mentalities and want them to go away from my online D&D experiences. You... were... obviously... NOT PREPARED! ;D
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