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Post by DEV Jlf2n on Jan 22, 2009 9:33:01 GMT -5
This thread is about rule 14. If you wish to talk about builds please do so in another thread.
Rule 14 is there for PW balance. Dipping into classes for one level for certain abilities unbalances the PW. Monsters are designed for non PB's and become to easy for PBs. We want people to be able to play the class they want to play without feeling like they have to study a wiki page for two days in order to build a class that is adequate enough.
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raenir
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Post by raenir on Jan 22, 2009 9:34:33 GMT -5
Even with non power builds wiki is still required
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Post by adzling on Jan 22, 2009 10:32:56 GMT -5
im playing my drow rogue/wizard and it is HARD in the UD. no quests like on the surface and tough low level monsters with few to party with *cough* hide behind.
nonetheless i soldier on without the benefit of a powerbuild cheese, it works and i have few issues.
besides the servers thankful removal of 1 level cheese dips personally I would love to see certain classes restricted for certain races.
the standouts being drow paladins, drow stormlords and drow druids. and svirf stormlords and svirf druids. duergar stormlords and druids.
hehe but i am little more *hardcore* than most here it seems.
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ovarf
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Post by ovarf on Jan 22, 2009 10:38:58 GMT -5
ok I might be about to stick my foot in my mouth but it will not be the first or last time.
some players like to RP an organic build that grows with the RP. Some players have an idea what they want to RP and make the build accordingly.
if your wanting to play a (insert PRC here) you have to plan for that in the build.
I play a "bard" type and I have to say I haven't run across that many people claiming bard. Taking out RDD is a huge help for fighter types too it frees up 10 levels so we don't have to keep playing keeping up with the Jone's for immunities.
That all said some players will still make more powerful builds then others because the NWN system was not designed as a MMORPG and some class combinations are just way more powerfull then others monk / cleric / sacred fist comes right to mind.
The balance needs to be held in check by both the Developers and the Players the players need to not make things that are so powerful as to walk the PW and the Developers need to not jack up the difficulty if a few players are havering what they feel is to easy a time with it or advancing faster then they would like. Remember the players make a lot of their own experience and some of them like to advance and grind don't hold the rest of the players accountable for the outliers.
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thegnomeherder
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Post by thegnomeherder on Jan 22, 2009 13:09:44 GMT -5
We want people to be able to play the class they want to play without feeling like they have to study a wiki page for two days in order to build a class that is adequate enough. This is basically what I'm talking about- but it seems as if all the creatures are made for these types of builds.
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Post by whenwizardswar on Jan 23, 2009 0:05:20 GMT -5
Hint:Join the Red Wizards, with an army of powerful wizards to blow things up you cant loose.
I'm sorry but when you narrow it down four wizards versus four fighters of the same level? Chances are the wizards will win.
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Post by DEV Jlf2n on Jan 23, 2009 16:20:44 GMT -5
Its not that they were meant to be that way, its just that this is the first trial of them. We will tone them down and tweak them as we go. We want people to be able to play the class they want to play without feeling like they have to study a wiki page for two days in order to build a class that is adequate enough. This is basically what I'm talking about- but it seems as if all the creatures are made for these types of builds.
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Post by Forumlord of Talos on Jan 23, 2009 18:02:46 GMT -5
In pen and paper One rarely sees a mage running into battle cleaving a path deeper then the party's warrior Druids didn't clank around in plate mail thru the woods. and the world wasn't made up of primarily outsiders deep gnomes and other rare races. A good Dm usually kept this in check
Unfortunately obsidians translation was very short sited and Devs have to make up for it as players fail to babysit themselves.
I myself have no issue with rule 14 and any others a Dev or Dm wishes to test to gain better logical balance in the game
Keep in mind as well that many adventurers didn't go out into the hostile world alone and party balance was a necessity for survival
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Post by adzling on Jan 23, 2009 18:15:09 GMT -5
imho some races should only be available via dm approval.
Some because they are just too powerful, some because too many of them running around town just borks RP (they are meant to be exceedingly rare) and most of them because they mostly attract cheese-masters who have no idea how to RP them.
highest on that list would be deep gnomes, assimars, plane-touched and yuan-ti.
drow could fall into this list as well IF they were ever let loose on the surface in large numbers (i.e. spawning there). the saving grace of Drow is that they have a deep and wide lore and background that many who play them find very interesting and if done well can enhance RP for all.
Whereas deep gnomes, assimars, plane-touched and yuan-ti do not and most people just play them as uber humans.
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raenir
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Post by raenir on Jan 23, 2009 23:46:07 GMT -5
woah woah woah, no dissing Yuan Ti, I play them as Uber Drow There's I think, at least 3 good books on Yuanti (although a bit inconsistent, one of the main characters was described as a halfblood but was indistinguishable from a pureblood? Makes no sense) although admittedly they are a tad whatchamacalit, obscure.
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devildog30
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Post by devildog30 on Jan 24, 2009 5:13:23 GMT -5
This thread is about rule 14. If you wish to talk about builds please do so in another thread. Rule 14 is there for PW balance. Dipping into classes for one level for certain abilities unbalances the PW. Monsters are designed for non PB's and become to easy for PBs. We want people to be able to play the class they want to play without feeling like they have to study a wiki page for two days in order to build a class that is adequate enough. I couldn't agree more! I know of a few players who's warrior classes couldn't handle the mobs once the server went Hardcore, so they multi-classed and now have "HIPS," or can cast spells, or other BS that is straight up textbook PBs. Why does everyone have to be a superhero on this server all of a sudden? However, to be fair I'm to blame just as anyone else. My fighter after reaching lvl 15 decided to become a Wpn Master. Yet by doing so the server hasn't all of a sudden become alot easier for me. I still can't take on more then one Hill Giant at a time, and the Helm Horrors? No Effing way!! Enough said. Semper Gumby (Always Flexible)
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Post by DM Cephas on Feb 11, 2009 4:44:20 GMT -5
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Post by tristanvaneer on Feb 11, 2009 9:52:43 GMT -5
I've never understood peoples fears of "powerbuilding". Should we purposely hinder our characters chances for success? Why not just take their weapons away from them? Too many people seem to be worried about what their neighbor is doing and not enough about themselves. If you are enjoying the game then let everyone else enjoy the game as well. This "powerbuilding" as its referred to as is actually my favorite part of the game. I like discovering what combination of classes works well together. Not every fighter in the world is a straight fighter and not every rogue in the world is a straight rogue... that is why the game allows you to choose up to four different classes. There are penalties for mixing classes and some races, as they should be, are better suited to some classes. This is the advantage that humans have over the others, they can mix with any class. Taking that away makes it even less appealing to play what should be the most populous race in the world.
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Post by adzling on Feb 11, 2009 10:11:59 GMT -5
i like it too tristan! i think the complaint about "powerbuilding" if focussed on those who design their toon with cheesey class dips that have zero RP value, make little RP sense without convoluted background stories that stretch the bounds of credulity and often end up ignoring them alltogether.
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Post by DM Cephas on Feb 11, 2009 12:17:45 GMT -5
i like it too tristan! i think the complaint about "powerbuilding" if focussed on those who design their toon with cheesey class dips that have zero RP value, make little RP sense without convoluted background stories that stretch the bounds of credulity and often end up ignoring them alltogether. As adzling said, the comic was making fun of the weird to non-existent RP builds that are done solely for efficiency reasons. There's no rule against it but the monkey-gripped scythe and tower shield wielding weapon master just looks weird to me. you got to admit, that comic was funny! ;D
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