|
Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Jan 26, 2009 16:17:00 GMT -5
Though I am a heavy RPer myself, I tend to agree with [much of] what the server has set for rules already. I have (and so have others) seen players go from heavy action, to role-playing, which is something which would not have happened had we forced RP from the start.
OOC chatter can be disruptive, however I would not go so far as to say it has to be done in tells. Sometimes tells just won't work, like when there's more than one person one has to speak to. Also, if two players are alone (as Broham said) OOC chatter is fine so long as they both want to do it and it isn't interrupting others.
|
|
|
Post by DEV Jlf2n on Jan 26, 2009 16:19:59 GMT -5
Loudent brings up some very good points, and I also appreciate the compliments. The thing is with trying to create both a RP server, and a server that is inviting to non hardcore RPers, or players who are new to RPing, you have to pick and choose your battles. This also holds true for the player. Sure there are things that will aggravate players from both ends of the spectrum. Does //OOC chatter bother Hardcore RPers? Sure it does. But in the end you have to weigh the pros and cons and decide what you can and can't live with. I think there are a lot of things about the world that can appeal to, and accommodate the Hardcore RPer. For example, low magic, a lean economy, and anti powerbuild rules. On the other side a new player, perhaps new to RP themselves, can come in and learn the ropes without feeling like some evil cop DM is just waiting to smite them. They can ease into RPing and often become the type of RPer that everyone enjoys playing with. The kind of player who helps create a great atmosphere of RP without badgering fellow players about the rules or lore. Sure this creates loop holes that players will undoubtedly try to jump through but these players are the exception, not the rule. If you had access to the DM client I promise you would see as many standard races as outsiders roaming the wilderness. There is one thing I have learned about good RP though, is that it is contagious. If you are a solid RPer and take a friendly stance to those around you, including the non RPers, you'll eventually rub off on them. In the end though its up to you the player to make of it what you will.
|
|
|
Post by highwayman on Jan 26, 2009 16:22:17 GMT -5
Guess it depends on who you're improving the server for, but majority rules. And there are instances where ooc local chat is much more convenient than sending tells to everyone around you. I use the (( method. Personally I think that the more restrictions that are added here are just going to move the server to a hardline stance and in the long run may make people log in for a day and quit. I like variety and I think that this is one of the draws of the server, you can rp or you can go kill things. The rp xp script and reduction of creature xp has pushed some folks, such as myself to slow down and strike up convo(which I don't mind). But I do like having the option open that at any time I can go beat some stuff up.
Agreed on warlocks, despite any rewriting for rulesets the template as it was originally intended as a prestige 2.0 class, it was nothing short of vile.
But it's faerun I'd say also, anything's possible. Need to possibly consider that most people are not making pc's with "will this make the server happy" in mind. Most want to be in some way an example. Whether that be unsatisfied farmboy or sigil refugee. Sooner or later both excuses are going to appear overused. (:
*As stated in a few posts I was as well one of those people who used to play on a nwn1 action server and am completely fresh off the boat in terms of rp pw's. Most of my background for my main was fleshed out with what I've read in books and with the help of some users here.
|
|
|
Post by luna on Jan 26, 2009 17:33:43 GMT -5
It would be rather difficult to enforce any kind of OOC tell, or IC rules. DM's cannot be on the server 24 hours a day monitoring everything that is going on. I think even if BG posted a statement it's now Hardcore RP,.. it really wouldn't cahnge the OOC tell or other stuff much. It might mildly reduce it. And trying to enforce it would probably drive away players since it would take some severe penalties to try and enforce that kind of rule.
I think some of this can be helped by more DM'ing, running world plots that players get to be involved in, and creating more quests and hard creative dungeons that require gourping to get through to try and help RP. Obviously this wouldn't make all the OOC, grinding, and looting go away either, but it will give players something to focus on for RP. And, thats not a knock on myself or other staff here. For how fast this place is growing, I think all those aspects are doing pretty good! But I would rather our focus stay on DM'ing, building, plots, etc, rather than enforcing OOC behavoir.
On the other side of the spectrum for goofy builds, or out of this world RP stories to get away with a build that doesn't really make sense, I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more enforcement or some kind of restrictions on builds, races, and PRC's. Although I think it's starting to look like the number of Plane-touched and Genesai is dropping a bit. I think when I first started playing here, human was a rare race. That trend appears to be reversing.
|
|
|
Post by residentbalkor on Jan 26, 2009 17:43:10 GMT -5
I think the major problem here is that NWN has always been the game for "Roleplayers" - Coming from a D&D background, being able to interact with both players and DMs, dynamic worlds and quests and all that... It's a natural environment for us. Take away the Roleplay and you're left with what? Free MMORPGs? but they're not even that because of the low player base. NWN is a Roleplaying game first ---- Now, that said - I agree that having a OOC is a must in any game, especially with such a small playerbase (Compared to an MMO) - Sometimes you have to arrange a meeting because the world is too big, sometimes you're bored and so forth - So we all know it's an inevitable part of NWN Gameplay - But to make it a norm where players can just go in and out of character?... That ruins the cinematic effect players get when getting involved... So it's a no no. Why not make an OOC room? We had that in Myth Drannor - Heck, design it like a D&D gaming table and you got a winner .. Give an OOC teleportaion widget, only usable from certain places in the game and not during combat and you have a double win. Lastly, on the subject of exotic races - I think they should be left only for those willing to write a biography for their characters which is reviewed and approved accompanied by good roleplaying skills - I know this doesn't cater to everyone, but why should it? Ask yourself this, do you really HAVE to be a Drow if you're not going to roleplay as one? Can't you be a normal Elf? If your Deep Gnome is going to act like a normal Gnome, why not just role a standard Gnome? Subraces, and especially the very exotic one (Planar, Deep races, Orcs) should be left for those who have not only the ability but the will to flesh them out - because encountering a Drow who acts willy nilly walking about in Town as if he was a human or (As mentioned before) a Deep Gnome who just happens to be a Drows best friend.. Er... Don't get me started on Aasimar Paladins and Tiefling Thieves... Picking a subrace for the cool factor is, well, with a lack of any better way to describe it - Poor. Sorry if the message might seem a bit hostile to any light-RPers, non-RPers or learning RPers, but that's the way I see things That doesn't mean you should see them the same way!
|
|
mrdeadman
Senior Member
I'll thank you to keep your reality out of my fantasy.
Posts: 308
|
Post by mrdeadman on Jan 26, 2009 17:43:27 GMT -5
I've been on a few servers myself and one thing I look at (and one of the most inviting points) was the fact that were very few restrictions (Only RDD). People sometimes forget that this is a FANTASY game. People play to escape the drudgery that is reality. If that involves running around for an hour a day pretending you're a Tiefling paladin/monk/sacred fist of Illmater, well right on. I know most people ( there may be one or two) don't want to play Ted the human who is a costs and risk management financial adviser to King Boringass.
There have been situations I've run into here that made me want to jump up and down screaming for sanity. Then I just think to myself... Does this really matter to me and my character at all? No, it doesn't. Moving on.
|
|
|
Post by loudent2 on Jan 26, 2009 18:12:18 GMT -5
NWN is a Roleplaying game first ! No, NWN is and always will be about catering to ALL playstyles. Making the game the way you want. It is for that reason that it's so appealing to RPers. But, Trust me, Dungeon delving, item acquisition and leveling can still be fun in the absence of role-playing (apparantly so can taking a thread off-topic ;D sorry about that )
|
|
|
Post by Erulaan D'Anhoor on Jan 26, 2009 19:41:35 GMT -5
deleted for being rude.
Hey I self policed!
:-)
|
|
|
Post by Zealote on Jan 26, 2009 21:23:13 GMT -5
Ask yourself this, do you really HAVE to be a Drow if you're not going to roleplay as one? Can't you be a normal Elf? If your Deep Gnome is going to act like a normal Gnome, why not just role a standard Gnome? I agree 100% with you. But powerbuilders like power. So people that like power always want to be a drow on the surface or deep gnome on the surface. Even when we HAVE their counterparts available. But they lack the so called ''challenge'' of ECL. Yeah, right. Its all about the challenge...Makes one wonder...how many ''normal'' gnomes we have on the surface right now and how many deep gnomes-wanna-be-normal-gnomes-and-live-on-the surface we have. We do have to admit, they are sooooo cute. *Rushes in to make a deep gnome and play as a gnome* *Grins to all reading*
|
|
|
Post by cobaltblue on Jan 27, 2009 0:48:25 GMT -5
Lastly, on the subject of exotic races - I think they should be left only for those willing to write a biography for their characters which is reviewed and approved accompanied by good roleplaying skills - I know this doesn't cater to everyone, but why should it? Ask yourself this, do you really HAVE to be a Drow if you're not going to roleplay as one? Can't you be a normal Elf? If your Deep Gnome is going to act like a normal Gnome, why not just role a standard Gnome? Subraces, and especially the very exotic one (Planar, Deep races, Orcs) should be left for those who have not only the ability but the will to flesh them out - because encountering a Drow who acts willy nilly walking about in Town as if he was a human or (As mentioned before) a Deep Gnome who just happens to be a Drows best friend.. Er... Don't get me started on Aasimar Paladins and Tiefling Thieves... Picking a subrace for the cool factor is, well, with a lack of any better way to describe it - Poor. Sorry if the message might seem a bit hostile to any light-RPers, non-RPers or learning RPers, but that's the way I see things That doesn't mean you should see them the same way! I agree with you except on the races part. Some of us that do play the exotic races do so because they instrest us. You'd be throwing the baby out with the bath water if you are trying to get rid of powerbuilders. Banning characters simply because they don't fit the pigion hole rpg role that everyone else does just narrows the rp possiablities and oppurtunties. What is to be gainned by making the server like every other game/server that is filled to the brim with gnomes, elves, orcs, and humans? And why should a game meant to be entertaining and casual require us to filll out a resume listing our personality traits and goals? This in my mind just leads to bland characters playing the sterotypical role. As someone else said, we don't come to BG to relive our work day all over again.
|
|
|
Post by drachii on Jan 27, 2009 5:15:36 GMT -5
Just to add something to the 'they're popping out of the woodwork' bit - I've seen a grand total of four genasi so far, and one of them is me. There's me (fire), Pluto (earth), Nematodething (water) and that air one who I encountered so briefly that I forgot his name.
I have seen a few aasimar, though.
|
|
|
Post by Zealote on Jan 27, 2009 5:41:52 GMT -5
I have seen a few aasimar, though. If you've seen just a few then I guess you need to get out more. ;D
|
|
|
Post by xaentian on Jan 27, 2009 7:01:20 GMT -5
I myself am a heavy RPer when in character. I thoroughly enjoy RPing with others. However that being said I've always been of the opinion to let people play as they see fit. I see no reason at all to force anyone to RP if they don't want to. Nor do I see any reason at all to restrict the races and classes people can play. Except.......to satisfy those who I consider RP snobs. Those people who wish not only to enforce RP but also wish to impose their style and opinions on others. I have no use for those people. This server is fantastic in every way. The RP is GREAT. The setting beautiful. If someone wants to grind,level and farm gold they can. If someone wants to sit around around a campfire and discuss the gods and religion they can. I see leave everything as it is.
|
|
|
Post by residentbalkor on Jan 27, 2009 7:43:23 GMT -5
Just a small word before I actually respond: I know some people will disagree, and I can understand why - that said, here we go; You're right, but if you don't post anything than it's just fair play to OOC - Give people a reason not to do it and slowly but real enough - they'll stop doing it. Yeah but so are MMORPGs, Fantasy Shooters and all that - They provide the same elements that NWN does. NWN however gives you a playground where DMs can interact with players - and better yet, players can interact with developers which in turn affects the world. So you're right in a way, it's not directly a RP-only game, but it is without doubt the only game out there that can cater to Roleplayers this way. I've been on a few servers myself and one thing I look at (and one of the most inviting points) was the fact that were very few restrictions (Only RDD). People sometimes forget that this is a FANTASY game. People play to escape the drudgery that is reality. If that involves running around for an hour a day pretending you're a Tiefling paladin/monk/sacred fist of Illmater, well right on. I know most people ( there may be one or two) don't want to play Ted the human who is a costs and risk management financial adviser to King Boringass. Why does your idea of a fantasy related human immediately resembles a normal job from everyday life? That said, the fact that you are a Tiefling automaticly makes you an interesting fantasy concept? No, well, at least in theory. When a person plays an exotic race character without the boundries of "This is how the race behaves" you aren't actually playing the exotic race, you just look like it. E.G Imagine you're a Deep Gnome fresh out of the Underdark - scared, confused and paranoid - Basiclly, your standard Deep Gnome roleplayer.
Said Deep Gnome walks around a forest for a bit and bumps into a Drow player, the Drow cheerfully greets him and tries to become his best friend because he's cute.
Said Deep Gnome facepalms IRL and shrugs.Okay so what did we have here (in the most undetailed form I could come up with) - We had a Deep Gnome who tried to fit with the racial qualities he picked, and a Drow who thought black skin makes him look more interesting, but still behaves like a little kid. Now, under any Roleplay circumstance could I imagine a Drow who was mentally retarded enough to be like that? No, sadly - he would be killed on birth. Hence why when I meet a Drow I expect a serious tone, even if by some chance we're speaking with a neutral or heck, even good Drow - He'd still be serious, and he'd be way more cautious than openly admit he is a Drow. BY THE WAY - This officaly caters to what someone said earlier - We as PCs form about 0.01% of the world - Now lets imagine a Drow walks into Baldur's Gate without any incognito - Do you really think anyone cares he's a good Drow? He will get stoned asap. So, all that said... Yes I understand we're escaping real life here to play a game - But does the concept of rules sound so wrong that you can't enjoy a fantasy setting given it had a tiny bit of rules? Imagine the exact opposite, a fantasy setting with no rules at all where everyone is a Drow-son-of-a-devil-and-god-king-of-Faerun. Yeah, you get my drift. Well be that as it may be... Nearly every major villan or hero in Faerun is a standard race - so HA! Standard races are the coolest Okay, and I'll say this as a general statement so don't take it directed to you - I ain't trying to offend anyone, just make a point. If a subrace interests a player so much, why does the player roleplay the subrace as if it was a standard race? Subraces are more than just a set of extra stats, ECL and racial abilities - They have personality traits, problems, racism and all that rubbish that you don't get as a standard race. If you avoid addressing those things then, basiclly, you're a standard race anyway. You're right and you're wrong. Characters with biographies are real characters - what do I mean? I mean they are consistant, every time you encounter them they'll be the same role. Besides, in a Roleplaying enviorment how is writing a character biography, which is basiclly the story of your character in detail, be a problem? It's a given if you roleplay. All that said - Biographies are the key to consistant character traits, meaning that everytime you play your characters you know exactly who and what they're from - Just like actors interpret their characters traits and life - Good roleplay requires character history. The question is, are you aware how RARE genasi are, especially in the sword coast? That's 4 Genasi, on a server that averages what? 20-30? We're talking roughly 8-13% here, and we're talking JUST about Genasi'. Well since you went ahead and suggested I'm a snob, I'll go ahead and suggest that I don't think you're a heavy roleplayer if you think farming gold, grinding and generally not being characteristic is okay. I mean, by saying you do NOT want those rules - are you not enforcing your anti-RP or imposing YOUR style on the heavy RP community out there?
|
|
|
Post by hnefi on Jan 27, 2009 9:28:29 GMT -5
If a subrace interests a player so much, why does the player roleplay the subrace as if it was a standard race? Subraces are more than just a set of extra stats, ECL and racial abilities - They have personality traits, problems, racism and all that rubbish that you don't get as a standard race. If you avoid addressing those things then, basiclly, you're a standard race anyway. IMHO, it depends. Some subraces - such as drow - have a wealth of easily accessible lore. Others don't. Some subraces even make sense to play as humans, because they try to appear as such (Yuan-ti and sometimes tieflings/aasimars). It all depends. And then there are things like racism; it's not up to the player of an unusual race to introduce racism, it's up to the humans and elves to do that. If there is too much acceptance of tieflings or whatever, then encourage the 'normals' to be more racist instead of placing restrictions on the unusual races. Well, no. It's 4 out of 20 + 40.000 (approximate population of Baldur's Gate), which is very little indeed. We all play extraordinary individuals, even the humans and elves among us; it's the NPC's that are "normal". All PC's are rare, including the genasi. Anyway, I wanted to comment on good warlocks, since they have been mentioned here. I don't see the problem with them. I don't know what the warlock class looked like in 2.0, but this is 3.5 ED, where warlocks don't have to be evil. In fact, there's no reason why a fey pact warlock would be evil, and even an infernal or abyssal pact warlock can be neutral or even good depending on the circumstances which gave him his powers. The question should be whether the character makes sense, not whether a class configuration is unusual or not. There are races and classes where certain alignments are impossible or extremely rare (good drow/yuan-ti, 'reformed' assassins), or where switching alignments should bring consequences that NWN2 doesn't implement (paladin, BG, monk, druid, cleric). Warlocks are not such a class, at least not according to any material I've seen regarding them.
|
|