Jiszo
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Posts: 449
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Post by Jiszo on Jan 25, 2009 3:31:40 GMT -5
I think the ac bonus's should be +2 instead of one. and every other lvl you gain spells. I think it would kinda balance the class out since the str. bonuses would be taken away. I do not forsee this class gaining additional spell casting levels. Once again, I doubt the class will come back, but if it does, it will be for r/p purposes only. The only reason I suggested it is because you do in pnp. I figured it you take out the str and add in spells it in a sense make up for the lose of str and casters would still get some kind of beneficial bonus. As stated by others before it was removed in order to remove powerbuilds. but with the launch of the ud and more powerful monsters around and even more coming I think the server may soon be ready for the return of the class. with or with out modes. I purpose that the class be brought either after the next couple of updates or when the beta period is over. I think it should be done before the beta is over with as to see how bringing back the class would affect the server.
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Post by Tiefling on Jan 25, 2009 4:16:40 GMT -5
1 +1 AC 3 2d10 breath 1/day 4 +1 AC 5 Blindfight 7 +1 AC, 4d10 breath 1/day 10 +1 AC, 6d10 breath 1/day, see invis 1/day, immune sleep, paralysis, fire, darkvision (halfdragon) Why not make the attribute progression more akin to that of PnP and drop the final +4 to strength and charisma? You could even move the second +2 to strength to be given out at level nine.
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Jiszo
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Posts: 449
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Post by Jiszo on Jan 25, 2009 4:24:10 GMT -5
1 +1 AC 3 2d10 breath 1/day 4 +1 AC 5 Blindfight 7 +1 AC, 4d10 breath 1/day 10 +1 AC, 6d10 breath 1/day, see invis 1/day, immune sleep, paralysis, fire, darkvision (halfdragon) Why not make the attribute progression more akin to that of PnP and drop the final +4 to strength and charisma? You could even move the second +2 to strength to be given out at level nine. I like that idea, and I'm glad someone else want to see them back in the game as much as I do.
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Post by Tiefling on Jan 25, 2009 4:40:47 GMT -5
And even if the class would get popular, again, I suppose someone could start guild named: Cult of The Red Dragon, or something like it.
But in any case: RDD needs:
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Post by adzling on Jan 25, 2009 11:22:17 GMT -5
i can feel the cheese from here...
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raenir
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Post by raenir on Jan 25, 2009 11:42:35 GMT -5
Care to explain why you feel a level 6 or 8 ish Sorceror who multiclasses only as say 10 Sor / 10 RDD or Bard 10 / RDD 10 is Cheese? The problem was any class with 5 ranks in lore getting it right?
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Post by Tiefling on Jan 25, 2009 12:13:41 GMT -5
No one is stopping you from playing a Favoured Soul. Class which is said to be a lot better than it is in PnP, while still being the worst class there is in Neverwinter Nights 2.
As for the cheese, if the class will have all the changes I've suggested. It is in line with the Pale Master prestige class when it comes to power.
-The plus four to strength gives you what, +2 to attack and damage? You can do better with barbarian and berserker levels. The two points to constitution gives you one extra health point per level. And the two point bonus to intelligence doesn't bring you all that many extra skill points either.
The breath weapon is something even low level characters can easily win their reflex saves against.
Fire Immunity can be achieved with spells already, though it can be handy when facing the local red dragon. (If you add the wings to the game, anyone seeing them can say for certain someone has fire immunity. So much for that benefit.)
I do not know if the natural armor bonus stacks with other sources of natural armor increases. (I'd say this would be the best benefit of the class whether it stacks or not.)
But still, Pale Master would be the more attractive option from the Power-Gaming point of view.
And if I would want to power-game seriously I'd go for the real cheese. We got ASoC, RWoT, SL and those fellows hiding in plain sight.
Well, over and out. See you in next weekend.
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Post by adzling on Jan 25, 2009 12:55:40 GMT -5
well first of tiefling let me say i agree that wizard/SD builds can get cheesey and i would prefer SD HIPS moved to level 5. I also agree that favoured soul is pretty thick with the cheese sauce.
that being said the cheese build here is SORC/PAL/RDD/Bard
pure cheese with RP requiring backflips of storytelling to justify.
but don't take my word for it the easiest way to tell which classes/builds/races get abused is to check out an unrestricted PW such as TFR. All the cream of the cheese floats to the top and becomes prevalent.
RDD is excluded for a reason.
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raenir
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Post by raenir on Jan 25, 2009 13:08:41 GMT -5
And what is that reason in your view adzling, I have to admit that your being a bit.... harsh? On what is considred cheese and not quite justifying it.
Are you saying being a sorceror is a cheese build or simply soneone who multiclasses the above 4?
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Post by adzling on Jan 25, 2009 13:19:11 GMT -5
my point is the combo raenir.
it requires torturous explanations that stretch credulity to arrive at a build that includes RDD/Sorc/Pally/Bard in the same person and results in something silly powerful.
that's all.
i have no problem with sorc, or pally. bard's a bit overpowered due to the epic songs and what not but that's not relevant in this instance due to the 1 level bard splash to get RDD. my problem is the cheese that can result from using RDD.
that's all.
move along, nothing to see here ;-)
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raenir
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Post by raenir on Jan 25, 2009 13:25:04 GMT -5
what about RDD/SOR or RDD/BARD ?
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Post by adzling on Jan 25, 2009 13:33:19 GMT -5
RDD is overpowered, period.
low requirements (lore 8? that's a joke)
+4 natural AC +8str +2con +2int +2cha blind-fight immunity: paralysis
Those are only the good powers, im ignoring the marginal stuff like: see invisibility immunity:fire immunity:sleep breath weapon
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maximvs
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Post by maximvs on Jan 25, 2009 13:37:49 GMT -5
I suggest we allow the RDD class to be used, and simply remove the true strike spell from the server 3 months later. Muhahaha. after all, a caster type RDD sucks, and a melee RDD is wickedly strong.
Well, not that much since there are no devastating criticals, but with true strike those rdd melee chars are still cheesy, as you say... but without true strike or dev crits, those RDD fighter types arent as strong as you guys seems to think...
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Post by caveman282 on Jan 25, 2009 17:54:48 GMT -5
I hope this class dont get reintroduced. Its the most cheesey class ever mad. You all make exuses saying its a Rp build but its really not if you really wanted to RP a RDD then why not just RP it instead of letting the cheese class get put back in. I agree that the Storm lord is a powerful class but it dont add stats like the RDD does.
Not having the RDD is one of the greatest things to ever be done.
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Post by Iceshard on Jan 25, 2009 18:59:32 GMT -5
The class was banned for a reason, there is no sense in arguing it anymore, its not coming back. Period. Stop trying to justify this class behind some RP reasons, as we have seem them all, and they were just a joke anyways along the lines of some outlandish stories (Im a son of Elminster and a nephew of a dragon, who hangs out with Drizit).
As for the Reason people are saying its a "cheese" build.. Ill tell you.
35 STR is easily attainable with minimal thought 40+ AC just from gear along with the Stacking AC bonus the INT can be taken advantage of, as could the CHA and Con. The immunities and how people play these classes is also nothing more than an eye sore.
I have seen an elf dual weild great axes with just one class of Sorc, I have seen an Earth Genesai use the class to run over anything in its path, and Wizards who are better suited as some juggernaut after taking the class. Its pointless, and no fun for DM's or players with an RDD in the group...
The class is banned, its never coming back, get over it. -Ice
PS- Sorry for being blunt, but it has to be done once this type of thing reaches 3 pages AFTER Josh already said NO.
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