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Post by shorn on Jan 11, 2009 18:47:00 GMT -5
You know, I remember hearing a lot about casters being overpowered, and I guess since I have been playing neverwinter nights 2 so long, and dealing with obsidians idiocy for so long, Ive forgotten all about this very simple fact.
Shield and Improved Mage Armor both confer enhancement bonuses instead of armor and shield bonuses.
What do you guys think about, hypothetically, replacing IMA with either the pnp +2 enhancement +2 dodge +2 natural armor +2 deflection, or an armor bonus of +6 with 0 enhancement, and Shield with +4 shield armor bonus with no enhancement.
Just curious, as I was thinking about how +6 armor, and that is really what it is with all the cards down, doesnt make much sense, especially on a spellcaster
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raenir
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Post by raenir on Jan 11, 2009 22:07:39 GMT -5
Without it though doesn't a caster have generally speaking very few means of improving AC? You have monks and warriors at high level walking around with 30-50 AC and the best a wizard can do is what? damage reduction and % miss chance? What needs to be understood is that if you look at and study all the dozens of cut spells from PnP a wizard lost a LARGE number of defencive spells that in some cases was simply renamed and adjusted (spell mantle) or fixed around a little to confer bonuses lost elsewhere.
in PnP I could summon a doom of ice and keep a warrior locked for a while, or teleport away or this or that.
now im ffy on how AC/stacking works so im not sure what your suggesting but the above is my 2 renembi,
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Post by DM Sir Carnifex on Jan 11, 2009 23:31:58 GMT -5
Well, traditionally, a wizard should have some meat shields out there taking the punishment, so they really shouldn't need all the AC boost.
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raenir
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Post by raenir on Jan 11, 2009 23:57:15 GMT -5
not really any creature with intelligence should know to prioritize the caster.
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Post by Iceshard on Jan 12, 2009 9:40:08 GMT -5
Thats what SirC is saying.. Anything out there tries to take out the boom stick at any chance they get. Hence you have a wall of meat shields inbetween you and them. Glass cannons are supposed to be just that.. Glass Cannons.
-Ice
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Post by adzling on Jan 12, 2009 10:09:24 GMT -5
but a gish is meant to be TOUGH ;-)
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Post by shorn on Jan 12, 2009 15:23:30 GMT -5
Without it though doesn't a caster have generally speaking very few means of improving AC? You have monks and warriors at high level walking around with 30-50 AC and the best a wizard can do is what? damage reduction and % miss chance? What needs to be understood is that if you look at and study all the dozens of cut spells from PnP a wizard lost a LARGE number of defencive spells that in some cases was simply renamed and adjusted (spell mantle) or fixed around a little to confer bonuses lost elsewhere. in PnP I could summon a doom of ice and keep a warrior locked for a while, or teleport away or this or that. now im ffy on how AC/stacking works so im not sure what your suggesting but the above is my 2 renembi, Odd, I know of a simple mage that can reach 50, and another build that can reach 82 AC on this server, with the items currently buyable with no DM interaction. |
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Post by adzling on Jan 12, 2009 15:41:18 GMT -5
82AC?!?!
omfg dude DO NOT tell anyone who/what that build is.
but i'll but you a beer it's either a favored soul or svirf ;-)
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Post by Zealote on Jan 12, 2009 15:56:52 GMT -5
I would go for svirf pure monk with max dex. All you need then is a mage to buff just a little to kill a DM.
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Post by hnefi on Jan 12, 2009 16:30:47 GMT -5
Nah, better with a svirf monk/druid/sacred fist. Then you get the bonuses while wearing full plate and shield.
Hmmm... maybe some sort of epic divine shield cleric/sf build? Clerics do have plenty of AC buffs...
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Post by adzling on Jan 12, 2009 16:32:51 GMT -5
nooooooo hnefi you cross-posted from TFR!!!!
let's leave the exploit-monkeys there eh?
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Post by loudent2 on Jan 12, 2009 16:40:17 GMT -5
Odd, I know of a simple mage that can reach 50, and another build that can reach 82 AC on this server, with the items currently buyable with no DM interaction. That seems to strain credibility even though if I'm not familiar with items found on this server.... Nah, better with a svirf monk/druid/sacred fist. Then you get the bonuses while wearing full plate and shield. hmmm... maybe some sort of epic divine shield cleric/sf build? Clerics do have plenty of AC buffs... Of course, that's not a "simple mage", but even so could such a character really get 82 AC? It seems so unlikely given that I've heard +3 is the best you can get on this server. |
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Post by shorn on Jan 12, 2009 17:06:29 GMT -5
Yes, Ive calculated it before. No, I dont plan to tell anyone, and I dont plan on using it myself, as its pure and unadulterated cheese. And yes, its a pretty simple mage build, that gets 50 ac. A straight sorcerer can manage that, even.
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Post by loudent2 on Jan 12, 2009 17:14:34 GMT -5
Oh, I can see a relatively simple caster getting 50 ac perhaps, but I would question the viability of such a build. Especially sorcorer who has a relatively limited selection of spells, would there be any left over for offensive capability while leveling?
Even then I would question the 50 ac (not to mention the 82 AC). Are we talking with temporary buffs? I'm not sure I would count them. With permanent buffs you can get a pretty decent AC but it seems to fall shy of the 50 AC mark.
There's a "bug" involving Sorc among others that could probably get that sort of AC, but it's an obvious exploit and doesn't qualify as "simple" either. Is that what you're referring to?
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Post by shorn on Jan 12, 2009 17:34:44 GMT -5
The offensive capability is retained for the sorcerer, provided you take the right spells, and dont take ones you wont need later on because of impatience, and no "buffs" in the common usage are permanent. All the AC increases are from the arcane spell list. No exploits are used either, in either of the builds. Both are perfectly legal.
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