tpp
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Post by tpp on Jan 7, 2009 13:24:55 GMT -5
Is it not allowed to multi-class?
Copy&paste from Server Rules thread: 14. Please avoid powerbuilds and taking multiple classes, and try to have at least 4 levels in your main class by level .
15. No RDD class. We realize we don't have this blocked but if its still against the rules regardless. If caught you will be forced to relevel.
Is it not allowed, or just frowned upon... and why? I understand the problem with powerbuilds sure, but multi-classing allows for much greater diversification of the PC's.
Many famous characters of FR lore have multiple classes.
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Post by broham2 on Jan 7, 2009 13:31:14 GMT -5
Multi-Classing is allowed... that rule could probably use some clarification.
I think what is frowned upon (though not against the rules as far as I know) is the building that takes one lvl of SD for HiPs and that sort of thing...
The only thing that I know of that is not allowed is the RDD class, for balance reasons.
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raenir
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Post by raenir on Jan 7, 2009 13:50:41 GMT -5
Ild asusming becomming a half dragon and not gaining the ECL penalty for it is probably the reason.
Although I'm curious what precisely is a powerbuild, a build that maximizes your characters effectiveness? Probably, though I ask does this mean its prefferred if we "gimp" our builds?
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Post by DM Cephas on Jan 7, 2009 14:59:52 GMT -5
Powerbuilding is usually defined as taking one or two levels in a class just for the benefits without any real RP reason. E.g. Taking one level of cleric for the free feats, One level of Shadowdancer for HIPS, etc.
Multiclassing is not frowned upon unless it is to make a powerbuild.
RDD is not allowed because it is an overpowering class and has no real requirements. Almost every fighter-type would get one level of bard and then RDD just for the bonuses.
And yes, rule 14 still needs refining. It is being discussed in the DM forums and ruling is being determined on what it should be and how it will be enforced.
ON EDIT: Oh and powerbuilding is also seen as putting an 8 in dump stats like CHA and INT for a fighter in order to get 18's in STR and CON and then not RP'ing to it. "Why sure his INT is 8 but I he a learned half-orc warrior that can use big words. Please don't metagame me!"
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Post by caveman282 on Jan 7, 2009 15:27:09 GMT -5
Heres a great example of a power build
Earth Genasi (16 Fighter, 2 Bard, 10 RDD, 2 SD)
What is the RP value behind this?
Sure you can come up with somthing but for it to be a common build?
The thing about powerbuilds is taking splash lvls like have already been mentioned. 1 lvl of sd for hips, 1 lvl of cleric for free feats, 1 lvl of bard for access to RDD, basically thers nothing wrong with wanting a strong char but why would a warlock/paladin/DD/barb be an actual char?
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Post by broham2 on Jan 7, 2009 15:48:19 GMT -5
Looks like it was updated:
14. Use the following levelling guidelines to avoid powerbuilds: You will need to have at least 3 levels in each of your classes by level 20.
Makes sense to me. One note though, my character Kahlen is leveled thusly:
Rogue: 11 Wiz: 1 AA: 4 SD: 1
I obviously wont be able to have 3 levels in each class by lvl 20 at this point. The RP behind these changes jives with his character story since being on the server... He picked up the 1 lvl of Wiz when adventuring and learning from Weave Masters, in order to allow him to become an Arcane Archer.. after he progressed through the AA lvls and the Ramset line unfolded, it was RP'd that the continual interaction with the shades/shadows and the shadow portals they used had somewhat corrupted Kahlen and opened him to the SD class. Plans were to move him along down the SD levels from here.. but with recent events (joining the Fist), I dont know whether or not I want to do that.
So.. there are obviously SOME RP circumstances for these types of things. I dont mind if a rebuild is forced, or if he stays the same.. either way I am ok with it.
Thanks!!
Just changed the rule a bit so I modified your post.
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Post by DEV Jlf2n on Jan 7, 2009 16:09:02 GMT -5
Looks like it was updated: 14. Use the following levelling guidelines to avoid powerbuilds: You will need to have at least 3 levels in each of your classes by level 20. Makes sense to me. One note though, my character Kahlen is leveled thusly: Rogue: 11 Wiz: 1 AA: 4 SD: 1 I obviously wont be able to have 3 levels in each class by lvl 20 at this point. The RP behind these changes jives with his character story since being on the server... He picked up the 1 lvl of Wiz when adventuring and learning from Weave Masters, in order to allow him to become an Arcane Archer.. after he progressed through the AA lvls and the Ramset line unfolded, it was RP'd that the continual interaction with the shades/shadows and the shadow portals they used had somewhat corrupted Kahlen and opened him to the SD class. Plans were to move him along down the SD levels from here.. but with recent events (joining the Fist), I dont know whether or not I want to do that. So.. there are obviously SOME RP circumstances for these types of things. I dont mind if a rebuild is forced, or if he stays the same.. either way I am ok with it. Thanks!! Just changed the rule a bit so I modified your post. This is something we are only going to enforce moving forward. Rebuilds won't be mandatory for existing characters.
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raenir
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Post by raenir on Jan 7, 2009 18:05:33 GMT -5
My character's only dump stat is strength, easy enough to rp. I even put something in wis and charisma.
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Post by Erulaan D'Anhoor on Jan 7, 2009 18:22:30 GMT -5
I am a three class character. I'll tell you this, it makes playing very difficult in the short run as the character will not attain ability to really survive well on the server until well into Epic levels.
Levelling from 17 and up is a bit difficult for me right now, but that may change with future xp tweaks.
Single class chars seem to fare batter right now.
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raenir
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Post by raenir on Jan 7, 2009 18:32:04 GMT -5
Aside from the servers definition of powerbuild-multiclassing (for simply 1 level for a specifical non rped reason or ability) I generally don't see the point of multiclassing. For example RDD is not worth taking for me in NWN2 because you dont get wings, I get nearly every other ability from it from the virtue of being dorw characters and the firebreath is not worth it as being say a level 20 sorceror gives far more effective spells.
But thats me as a Drow.
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Post by broham2 on Jan 7, 2009 18:49:22 GMT -5
Aside from the servers definition of powerbuild-multiclassing (for simply 1 level for a specifical non rped reason or ability) I generally don't see the point of multiclassing. For example RDD is not worth taking for me in NWN2 because you dont get wings, I get nearly every other ability from it from the virtue of being dorw characters and the firebreath is not worth it as being say a level 20 sorceror gives far more effective spells. Generally speaking, multi-classing can be a good RP tool, or can be a result of RP/Play history. Some of the coolest characters are straight, one class epics.. but then some of the most interesting characters are a combination of classes earned through RP and events that take place IG. The combination doesnt have to necessarily help make you more 'effective' but if it helps define who/what you are, and what you are not, it can be good for a character. I think it really just comes down to play style and what you want from your character and gaming experience.
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Post by DEV Akavit on Jan 7, 2009 18:58:04 GMT -5
Unfortunately the new rules to help limit powerbuilds will severely restrict RP builds too. With the exception of Shadowdancer(HIPS), rogue(skills), warlock(saves) and fighter(feats) classes, taking just one or two levels in any class is typically wasteful.
Powerbuilds are nothing more than a careful selection of classes and feats in order to make a character that possesses unbeatable ability in combat.
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Post by wildelf on Jan 7, 2009 19:00:01 GMT -5
Just a thought, I'm not pushing it or anything, but should exceptions be made for Arcane Archer and Sacred Fist classes?
These classes are really designed for 1 level of the required spellcasting class, and then the continued spellcasting progression is considered your continued training in that level 1 class combined with your combat training. Having 3 levels of wizard or cleric is a bit of a hit to already-mediocre Prestige Classes.
Regardless, right on with the multiclassing rule!
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Post by Erulaan D'Anhoor on Jan 7, 2009 19:47:14 GMT -5
My three classes come about as a result of over 9 years of this character morphing.
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Post by Zealote on Jan 7, 2009 20:38:33 GMT -5
Just a thought, I'm not pushing it or anything, but should exceptions be made for Arcane Archer and Sacred Fist classes? These classes are really designed for 1 level of the required spellcasting class, and then the continued spellcasting progression is considered your continued training in that level 1 class combined with your combat training. Having 3 levels of wizard or cleric is a bit of a hit to already-mediocre Prestige Classes. Regardless, right on with the multiclassing rule! I agree with you. The Arcane Acher is to me still a wizard, but that uses a bow. And the Sacred Fist is as much cleric as it is a monk. So they should count as a violation of that rule.
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