A Subdual Mode.

[DEV Driller]

I will most likely check to see if you were killed by another PC.

Then set you to plot, set your hitpoints to -9 and let you recover using the bleed script.

When you regain consciousness, I would fully heal the player and turn off the plot flag

No xp loss, no trip to the fugue plane.

This would be automatic. No need for a widget.

-driller

Jun 17, 2008 15:47:29 GMT -5 Sojourn said:

Jun 17, 2008 15:24:08 GMT -5 blackdiamonds said:

you misunderstand me when i talk of being pissed off i am talking of those who do not consent run their mouth and spout off with no consequences.

Yeah this viewpoint is shared by alot of players here as well...if you go over to the pvp thread you will see this is a major problem with the "consent / no consent" rule. But with a subdual tool (which is the topic of this discussion), there won't need to be informed consent. Someone runs their mouth, you just run him through with your blade, just make sure you turn on subdual first. Next thing you know he's lying flat on his ass knocked unconcsious. Its pretty much all out PvP in a sense with a very small alteration - no loss of xp or gold - which everyone likes anyway. So I don't see any negative consequences of using a subdual tool, only positive outcomes.

And that point about a script that turns subdual on automatically when you log on, thats pretty much brilliant - but I'm not sure if its possible. Maybe driller would know for sure if it is or not, but in my time of playing nwn 1 and 2, the only ways I've seen subdual turned on is through a widget in your inventory, or by right clicking on your character.

[blackdiamonds]

i can live with that in fact i think that is pretty cool, would be nice to have a running total of knockouts rolmao, now just to get it set auto.

as for the bandit thing i think that has pretty much been played out on every server known to man lol

[Zero]

This all doesn't sound bad really (with the exception that pvp is full on and you dont have to sign a waver for it :/ ) The only thing I see a problem with is the 60 seconds for both players to calm down or whatever. What happens if your up against more than 1 opponent? Than you beat one and you get beat on by the other while you on a calm down period. It would be best to leave the calm down feature out of this.

Second maybe a script could also be put in so that when ever you defeat someone that steals from you they drop all the stolen item when beat by the person that it was stolen from. I'm sure driller could put up something like it tags the person that got stolen and if they kill the tagged theif there tagged items drop (or something like that). Otherwise there is no reprocution for stealing from others.

If those two problems are fixed than I honestly would love for it to be implemented. Yet we will still have the problem of griefers (every server has them) .....maybe we could have a anti idiot script so those people couldn't log on

[Ryokami]

See I have another idea... Well it is more of an improvement. Making Sub-dual able to be switched on and off. so it would make the factor of being able to beat on a player in order to "knock him out" to take him to prison. Or a way of capture.. And if it is toggled off it would actually kill the player but take NO XP and zone him to another location.. so we dont see constant "oh you killed me no it is time to get up un-hurt leave, buff up and attempt to kill you again" See the reason of a Player Vs Player fight is like a battle or war.. you dont see men getting up and walking away behind a trench after being launched in the air by a grenade to reload his weapon and fire.. That is an idea for Sub-Dual and PvP..

~Sub-Dual: Able to Toggle for RP reasons such as to take into custody, to spar, to knock the opponent out for an event.

~PvP: To determine winner vs loser. To show the other team, Hey.. You lost. To ensure people wont return after being roflstomped in a cave when they could of been killed after getting up from losing the fight, instead was let go so we could continue our event.

FYI DM Ice best DM in teh worldz. Tiernan doesnt know how to shank a rat even if it was unconscious laying on its back ontop of his blade. (idk why it would be, but still) <3 lolz

[DEV Driller]

It probably be best to send them to Elfsong. Perhaps a good Samaritan found the player who was knocked out and help him out.

-driller

Jun 27, 2008 3:26:00 GMT -5 Ryokami said:

See I have another idea... Well it is more of an improvement. Making Sub-dual able to be switched on and off. so it would make the factor of being able to beat on a player in order to "knock him out" to take him to prison. Or a way of capture.. And if it is toggled off it would actually kill the player but take NO XP and zone him to another location.. so we dont see constant "oh you killed me no it is time to get up un-hurt leave, buff up and attempt to kill you again" See the reason of a Player Vs Player fight is like a battle or war.. you dont see men getting up and walking away behind a trench after being launched in the air by a grenade to reload his weapon and fire.. That is an idea for Sub-Dual and PvP..

~Sub-Dual: Able to Toggle for RP reasons such as to take into custody, to spar, to knock the opponent out for an event.

~PvP: To determine winner vs loser. To show the other team, Hey.. You lost. To ensure people wont return after being roflstomped in a cave when they could of been killed after getting up from losing the fight, instead was let go so we could continue our event.

FYI DM Ice best DM in teh worldz. Tiernan doesnt know how to shank a rat even if it was unconscious laying on its back ontop of his blade. (idk why it would be, but still) <3 lolz

[Iceshard]

If there was a way to port them to Elfsong when knocked out/Killed by a player that would be cool.. But not a top priority I dont think right now.. Always up to Driller.
-Ice

[DEV Driller]

I will put this in for Beta4.

Thanks,
-driller

Jun 27, 2008 10:35:55 GMT -5 Iceshard said:

If there was a way to port them to Elfsong when knocked out/Killed by a player that would be cool.. But not a top priority I dont think right now.. Always up to Driller.
-Ice

[Ryokami]

Cool just trying to help out give some tips to improve or at least counter crying and bickering between players.

[Sojourn]

Well if they spawn in the Elfsong it will give a little bit of time and inconvenience for PvP camping...but won't totally prevent it, imo. Revenge is ok, but not if they die, seek revenge, then die, then get up and PvP again, and so forth. Respawning in the Elfsong would probably be better than dying and getting back up where you fell. Maybe there needs to be a rule that states a max number of PvP's per day or something in conjunction with the new script.

[Zero]

That I disagree with. I don't think there is really a way to stop grieving without rendering pvp to where its just not that fun. If you limit it to a certain number that people are allowed to pvp at once there go's having tourneys (meaning if say you fought someone today in a rp and than a DM holds a tournament there gos your chance to be able to fight aginst the person you got into a fight with) Testing out fighting for bugs and exploits in pvp.

Another thing is now that pvp has been changed to subdual mode what do you lose if you get killed??? Nothing but, time to heal and a little frustration of not wining. On top of that now in beta 4 (which will be released sometime within the week) you will be ported to the elfsong tavern away from the pvpers. The only thing I think that needs to be done for beta 4 to help stop greifing is to make the elfsong tavern a none pvp area since that is going to kidna be the little safe heaven for people who get killed.

Besides lets not forget this is a server with real people on it. Your going to have mature and immature people who choose to do the right things and than those who choose to do the wrong things or stupid things for that matter. Its part of life and it happens. Right now with subdual mode being added in I doubt we will have many more problems especially when players are sent to the elfsong tavern. We have only had 2 major incidents of pvp in the past month and a half I believe I've been here. The first was at the bridge with the bandits so subdual mode was added in. Now we have had the problem with Pheadra and now its going to port you to the elfsong tavern. Lets take these problems one step at a time and fix them as they come along. So we dont render something that (for me and others) halfway makes this game.

[laurk]

I like PvP. I also think loosing PvP should have consequences (such as respawning like normal). On the NWN 1 server I am involved with, we allow PvP any time, any place. We also have a good RP community, and teach new players by example. Every once in a while, and it is seldom, we get someone who griefs other players. He gets either suspended or banned for breaking server rules and thats that. Our rule is, you can (usually) only kill someone once per day, and PvP should only occur if there is a valid RP reason to do so "I am evil" is "generally" not good enough. Its important to note that only one party needs the valid reason... the victim doesnt need to be aware.

It has never been a real problem. Some players bitch and cry when they loose, but most learn quickly to be good sportsmen about it.

Subdual would be very cool for RP purposes like sparring.

I've found most people dont need a heap of rules. People "know" when they are doing something bad with common sense nine times out of ten. Some guidlines and a DM that isn't afraid to hit the ban key on a jerk is more than enough.

Everyone who exploits/griefs/twinks etc... will always say: "I didnt know!" Generally the DM knows if the guy is full of it or not. As the player base gets stronger and filled with good RPers and players, they will rub off on new recruits and old players will guide the new.. things will even out. Eventually, DMs will only have to take out the trash now and then.'

Cheers.

Laurk

[Zero]

Here is the rules for the server I was in for 5 years on nwn 1.

1.If you insult someone OCC or IC you consent to PvP.
2.If you pick pocket someone you consent to PvP.
3.If you are involved in a guild you consent to PvP.
4.If you steal kills or loot from another player, you consent to PVP.
5.Obviously, if you cast hostile spells or attack someone you consent to PvP.
6.If you enter the arena you consent to PvP.

It actually went pretty smoothly to. All im saying is lets just not start nerfing something so fast b/c of 2 incidents that happened and normally happen every once in a while.

[blackdiamonds]

pretty well defines ths does and don'ts as i see it

[radium]

Insulting someone out-of-character shouldnt really mean PVP. That's just taking things a little too far.

Personally the most fun I've had of PVP was losing my life as a weaponmaster to a monk of the long death. (Laurk: Wynter on FRC) I think we should go with a rule if, you lose PVP and are killed through PVP, and not subdued, you gain amnesia of the events 30 minutes prior (in real life time) of the PVP occurrence, as you have been brought back from the dead. This avoids the continual cycle of revenge between players. I'd also say we limit PVP to at the most once a day (and perhaps a longer cycle) if one party is killed.

I like however, being able to smite with my character if another character calls my character names.

[Ryokami]

Jun 27, 2008 23:16:40 GMT -5 Zero said:

Here is the rules for the server I was in for 5 years on nwn 1.

1.If you insult someone OCC or IC you consent to PvP.
2.If you pick pocket someone you consent to PvP.
3.If you are involved in a guild you consent to PvP.
4.If you steal kills or loot from another player, you consent to PVP.
5.Obviously, if you cast hostile spells or attack someone you consent to PvP.
6.If you enter the arena you consent to PvP.

It actually went pretty smoothly to. All im saying is lets just not start nerfing something so fast b/c of 2 incidents that happened and normally happen every once in a while.

But by meaning insult someone IC wise.. Someone calls me a Devil do I turn around and swing my axe in his face for it.. or be like.. *draws his weapon hastily and begins to run toward "player"* while that has been done I have already put on hostile. There really is a certain extent players can go, My character would normally not take to kindly to insults.

As today we had an event going and Ionix was constantly being slammed by this halfling normally I would of killed him already, But I fear what would happen (aka the DMs) I don't feel like being banned for attacking a player.. This is Baldur's Gate and as I have said plenty times before it isn't Carebear Gate.

Baldur's Gate was mainly guarded in the city gates and outside the walls it was fend for yourself.. If you could not handle your own you were smart enough to travel with others. Attacking in towns I would honestly want to say if you are caught by the guards it would be perma death. But being an outlaw on the run constantly in the woodlands there could either be some sort of bounty to where if a player actually finds the outlaw he can easily test his strength switch on subdual and knock his ass out and take him to town to where he can be tried and the outlaw would have to RP his way out.. if he can. or the player seeks some sort of revenge and kills the outlaw.

Insulting someone out-of-character shouldnt really mean PVP. That's just taking things a little too far.

Personally the most fun I've had of PVP was losing my life as a weaponmaster to a monk of the long death. (Laurk: Wynter on FRC) I think we should go with a rule if, you lose PVP and are killed through PVP, and not subdued, you gain amnesia of the events 30 minutes prior (in real life time) of the PVP occurrence, as you have been brought back from the dead. This avoids the continual cycle of revenge between players. I'd also say we limit PVP to at the most once a day (and perhaps a longer cycle) if one party is killed.

I like however, being able to smite with my character if another character calls my character names.

I also agree with the amnesia I have played on a server with something similar to that and it worked out wonderfully