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Post by ryokami on Jun 16, 2008 20:53:24 GMT -5
I was talking it over with a couple DMs. It is a thing called .subdual mode, be activated by typing in .subdual, /subdual or right clicking your character and going through that way.. It would enable the person attacking someone to only knock the players HP to 0 or -1 depending on the scripter, and rendering the playing winded for 60seconds. It is one way of "Ruffing a player up" Instead of down right murder. Thoughts?
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Post by Iceshard on Jun 16, 2008 21:25:09 GMT -5
I had mentioned this back in the debate of PvP. Subdual mode would be the best alternitive to outright death. It would also make "unanounced" PvP a little less frusterating.
If we can get it in, then by all means put it there.. think there is some hak packs that come with it already. -Ice
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Post by Sojourn on Jun 16, 2008 22:34:07 GMT -5
A subdual widget that you could activate would work best...the .subdual command line wouldn't be apparent to new players logging in for the first time - they might have to learn about it some time later on. If they check their inventory and see a subdual widget, they'd know right away what it is and how to use it.
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tlantl
Active Member
Posts: 198
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Post by tlantl on Jun 16, 2008 22:41:57 GMT -5
Something like this could be useful in a barfight or riot scenario where the PCs and NPCs get into comflict while avoiding needless slaughter.
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Post by Sojourn on Jun 16, 2008 23:01:09 GMT -5
Yeah it could be used against pcs or npcs but mainly for PvP fights to avoid dying - which to most is alot worse than dying by a monster. I vote we implement it, it would cut down the amount of work involved in trying to create PvP rules to try and get around every single aspect and problem that arises from it. Having a subdual tool keeps things effective and simple - just have two rules:
1) you must use it during PvP, and 2) you cannot initiate PvP with the same player in the same day
Easy as that.
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dezlathoth
Active Member
Chosen of Vhaeraun
Posts: 97
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Post by dezlathoth on Jun 17, 2008 0:31:09 GMT -5
I am in complete agreement with everyone else here.
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Post by mingming on Jun 17, 2008 5:51:23 GMT -5
I don't wish to sound negative, but this won't help the basic problem of PVP. Problem players will ignore the widget just the same as they would ignore any rules or guidelines regarding Mutual Consent, Sending Tells, etc. I'm not saying that the vast majority of players would not abide by whatever system is in place. The people who cause PVP problems will be the ones who simply don't care to learn, abide by, or take the trouble to use any form of restriction or system. Thus, the end result will be exactly the same as the current problem with certain problem players who ignore the concept of mutual consent, sending OOC Tells, and so forth. This is a "feel good" solution to a deeper problem. Using widgets or any pro-active system that requires the player to do something, rather than be automatic, in use, has this basic flaw.
The only PVP system I ever saw that worked well was a set of scripts that activated on Character Creation and first-time log-in. It asked the PC if he wanted to be flagged as PVP or Non-PVP. This flag was permanent, and though there was a widget for roleplayed "friendly" PVP mechanics, the setting determined what you could and could not do as default. Anytime a PC tried to PVP a Non-PVP flagged toon, they automatically died instead. This allowed those who wanted to engage in PVP as default, to engage; and those who did not wish to default engage in PVP to be protected from unwanted PVP. The aforementioned widget allowed non-flagged PC's to vountarily engage in a consensual situation on the selected target. This ended up being the fairest way I have seen PVP handled.
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Post by phantasmimic on Jun 17, 2008 8:37:25 GMT -5
I agree. Subdual tool allow for a MUCH less stressful pvp enviroment. At least in all NWN 1 servers I have been that used subdual system pvp wasn't much of a problem and people would play along fairly easy except for a very few over senstive. Also something that should be noticed, is that it's not just because the server has this tool avaliable that it should become a gank fest and any little discussion should lead to chars having their subduals on. Pvp should still be last option, it would just make it easier when it finally happens chars don't end up killing each other and generating a lot of frustration for both sides. So yeah, I'm all for subdual system as well.
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Post by Sojourn on Jun 17, 2008 11:33:06 GMT -5
In replying to ming's post, if problem player ignores the subdual tool and attacks to kill, then that would be blatant breaking of the rules and they would need to be punished - PvP rules are strictly adhered to and breaking them *intentionally* is considered griefing - which is a bannable offense. Its that simple really.
As to that part about the script that asks you to agree to PvP or not, I think its a little too constricting one's freedom. If they vote yes, and after multiple pvp encounters they get fed up with PvP, then they might have a change of heart - in which case it will be too late. Same goes for the opposite scenario - if they vote no, and later on makes a mortal enemy of another player, it'll be too late to turn it on. In order to not restrict freedom too much, I think a subdual tool would work out best for the server.
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Post by blackdiamonds on Jun 17, 2008 14:43:46 GMT -5
with all due respect for all of your opinions these ideas are not the solution to pvp problems and imho will just create more. PVP is a great thing when used responsibily by all concerned and that includes those who are against PVP. nothing pisses me off more than to have some jerk taunt or insult my char knowing they do not consent to PVP. my char has no recourse so it really works both ways. to get screenshots and bitch to DM's is not many players style, handling something like that as a player is the best solution and yes sometimes like in all things it does get out of hand but hey, that is what the DM's are for. your comments are solicited.
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lorgin2003
Senior Member
Dyn-o-miiiiite!!!
Posts: 373
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Post by lorgin2003 on Jun 17, 2008 14:44:25 GMT -5
how about having it automatically switch all PCs to subdual mode on log in? that way no one has to type or switch anything on.
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Post by calantyr on Jun 17, 2008 15:08:18 GMT -5
Subdual mode is necessary if two players want to RP practicing 'training' one another in combat, without one of them dying every five seconds.
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Post by Sojourn on Jun 17, 2008 15:14:12 GMT -5
with all due respect for all of your opinions these ideas are not the solution to pvp problems and imho will just create more. PVP is a great thing when used responsibily by all concerned and that includes those who are against PVP. nothing pisses me off more than to have some jerk taunt or insult my char knowing they do not consent to PVP. my char has no recourse so it really works both ways. to get screenshots and bitch to DM's is not many players style, handling something like that as a player is the best solution and yes sometimes like in all things it does get out of hand but hey, that is what the DM's are for. your comments are solicited. This was pretty much the viewpoint of everyone on this server until the incident the other night where the PvP got out of hand and we ended up with a heated discussion where a handful of players got pissed off. It was due to this that PvP has been temporarily shut off, so that the admins could discuss on how to handle it once the server goes live. So its not that rules are the cause of problems, its the fact that the problems arise first that causes rules to have to be made. And about pissing people off by not consenting to PvP...with subdual there is no consent or not consent...its all out open PvP, its just you don't get frustrated by losing xp and gold and being sent to the fugue, which only adds to the drama and tension. A subdual tool acts to filter and relieve these frustrations.
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Post by blackdiamonds on Jun 17, 2008 15:24:08 GMT -5
you misunderstand me when i talk of being pissed off i am talking of those who do not consent run their mouth and spout off with no consequences. and the same can be said for those who like pvp, all i am saying is there should be consequences on both sides of the ball, i am sure drilller has a script that can fix that problem if you ask him. another solution would be if you spout off you have given consent but that should be monitored and not abused by those who like pvp and again that is for the admin to discuss. another thing.... this server has guilds and most guilds have conflict with each other and the local populace it will be interesting to see how that will be handled pvp or otherwise.
thanks
oh and your quote at the end of your thread by Drizzt DO'Urden seems appropriate for this
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Post by Sojourn on Jun 17, 2008 15:47:29 GMT -5
you misunderstand me when i talk of being pissed off i am talking of those who do not consent run their mouth and spout off with no consequences. Yeah this viewpoint is shared by alot of players here as well...if you go over to the pvp thread you will see this is a major problem with the "consent / no consent" rule. But with a subdual tool (which is the topic of this discussion), there won't need to be informed consent. Someone runs their mouth, you just run him through with your blade, just make sure you turn on subdual first. Next thing you know he's lying flat on his ass knocked unconcsious. Its pretty much all out PvP in a sense with a very small alteration - no loss of xp or gold - which everyone likes anyway. So I don't see any negative consequences of using a subdual tool, only positive outcomes. And that point about a script that turns subdual on automatically when you log on, thats pretty much brilliant - but I'm not sure if its possible. Maybe driller would know for sure if it is or not, but in my time of playing nwn 1 and 2, the only ways I've seen subdual turned on is through a widget in your inventory, or by right clicking on your character.
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