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Post by DEV Jlf2n on Dec 19, 2008 8:21:52 GMT -5
I'll see if I can get Raph to fix so that you only lose exp while talking to Myrkul, and not upon entry to the Fugue.
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Post by eldur(retired) on Dec 19, 2008 8:35:17 GMT -5
Oh, this would help tons.
Right now if a player dies and we want to treat it as "knocked out" we end up creating a tally of xp debt when we summon them back.
As a character saves location when entering the fugue, one client crash (which sometimes happens on tranisitions) and the player incurs double debt.
I've also run some events in the fugue and every time you leave the Bone Castle you incur debt as well. (So be careful if you want to explore around down there)
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Post by shorn on Dec 19, 2008 13:42:27 GMT -5
Thank you jlf, that would be awesome!
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Post by loudent2 on Dec 19, 2008 14:49:57 GMT -5
I'll see if I can get Raph to fix so that you only lose exp while talking to Myrkul, and not upon entry to the Fugue. I think complete mitigation of the penalty is a mistake and can lead to a cetain amount of metagaming (I died, but my buddy joe the clieric is going to be on in 20 min so I'll hang out or play a different character until someone is on that can res me) and the presence of a cleric completely removes any risk to death. Partial mitigation is probably a better idea. Say Raise dead returns 25% of lost XP and Ressurection returns 40-50%. That way there are benefits to being raised but still enough penalty to make death to be avoided (and not quite enough benefit to bother waiting around for a cleric if none are on)
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Post by shorn on Dec 19, 2008 17:41:47 GMT -5
So, your logic is, punish the people who dont abuse it, while the ones who might get an xp break? *doesnt like it*
And everyone fears death...there are almost no clerics, no party incentives whatsoever beyond mere suvival, and the only thing that can rez anyone costs 12k...more than Ive earned in 6 days.
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Post by loudent2 on Dec 19, 2008 18:10:19 GMT -5
So, your logic is, punish the people who dont abuse it, while the ones who might get an xp break? *doesnt like it* Not sure what you're referring to. My logic has nothing to do with puinishing anyone. There must be a penalty for death or it becomes meaningless and every encounter is just a zerg rush. From the SRD, raise dead requires diamonds worth 5,000 gold and ressurection needs holy wanter and diamonds worth 10,000 gold. Neither of which allow the character to return without penalty. Of course, in PnP the result of death is 100% xp loss so perhaps the costs should be lowered here, but it still shouldn't be 100% xp loss mitigation.
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Post by shorn on Dec 20, 2008 0:15:49 GMT -5
Why? The ruleset for pnp was designed around the descretion of a DM being the mitigating factor. The premise behind the ruleset of nwn is that there will not always be, and spells were made to compensate for such. By that logic, we should have to pay for each spell we cast, based of the pnp components.
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Post by loudent2 on Dec 20, 2008 0:30:31 GMT -5
No, the DM guide is pretty lax on that. It is understood that a mage/cleric has the basic spellcasting componants, it's only special spells where it's called out that componants are actually required.
But more to the point, are you suggesting that a cleric with ressurection/raise dead should be able to erase all penalties for death?
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Post by shorn on Dec 20, 2008 1:34:31 GMT -5
If by should we allow a cleric with ressurection to use it in a manner that does not reduce xp, as it was intended to be used by OEI, and Bioware before them, then yes, I would say that is fairly accurate.
If I remember right, the penalty for ressurection was a loss of years off your total lifespan, though its been a while since I read the description. Also, a great many spells actually use other than basic crafting components, in addition to the spells that are higher up, and require the more expensive ones. However, the reason pnp is playable is because it moves at the speed of thought. You can go to the store, buy your crafting components, and get back to the plotline in a matter of seconds. Here you cannot, but instead must physically travel there. Thus, all the various spellcasting ingredients were taken out of nwn in the interest of making it more playable and non tedius on a large scale. That aside, the cost for a rod of ressurrrection actually more than the stated amount in diamonds for pnp ressurection.
All that, in addition to the very few people who even consider ressurecting others to save them hours of grinding time, or to even not make the DM go through the work of transporting and refunding players, contributes to not a whole lot of use out of the spell to begin with. I cant forsee actually spending that much money, to refund 2 hours of playing time to a player, instead of them losing a grand total of four, especially for the going price of it.
So through the course of this, weve actually done nothing aside from make the rod slightly less useless, and added an extra penalty to the method in which ressurection was originally intended to work. Yes we could argue all sorts of pnp rules in addition to this, like you will die sooner, whatever, but the fact is, sacrifices were made and measured in the transition from paper to computer.
What it all adds up to is, the spell is almost never used, we have very few clerics, and as far as I know, Im the only one who seems to want to be able to save player characters the waste of realtime with my monetary sacrifice. I dont plan to be buying one for the current price, or perhaps even half price, if 50% would be the penalty.
Anyways, thats my peice, this late at night, about to fall asleep.
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Post by loudent2 on Dec 20, 2008 1:44:30 GMT -5
If by should we allow a cleric with ressurection to use it in a manner that does not reduce xp, as it was intended to be used by OEI, and Bioware before them, then yes, I would say that is fairly accurate. Up until SoZ the spells were useless since your companions (and yourself) popped rigth back up as long as someone survived. If no one survived ir required a reload. I googled it before I responded the first time. Even raised/ressurected you lose 1 level's worth of XP (or -2 con if you're level 1). This seems harsh but considering PnP is 100%xp loss on death it's probably a bargain. All the necessary stuff is there. In fact it's one of the suggestions I floated when people were asking about what can be done to limit the proliferation of casters, introduce componants for some of the more egregious spells that are supposed to be limited by them. Please note that I'm not suggesting it remain as it is, but rather provide a 50% reduction in XP lost when used.
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Post by shorn on Dec 20, 2008 1:49:01 GMT -5
Ever cast ressurection on a dead ally, before SoZ? It seemed to work remarkably well, actually, at ressurecting them. The fact that they would come back from unconciuosness does nothing in respect to the actual function of the spell, but rather its usefulness. As I said. the way it was intended to be used.
I do pretty clearly remember a loss of total lifespan from my 3.5 manual though.
As for the component idea, that I like, actually. I would much prefer that be implemented to a 50% cut.
And yea, honestly, it would be better left defunct, than 50%, but thats a matter of opinion
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