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Post by DEV Jlf2n on Nov 10, 2008 17:45:57 GMT -5
So we have these new treasure chests that are going into the dungeons and we want the traps on them to equal the difficulty of the area in general. Does anyone know of ,or has anyone seen documentation on this?
I would like to know what the disarm and detect numbers are equal to in CR terms.
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Post by broham2 on Nov 10, 2008 17:53:27 GMT -5
I don't know, but I can do some tests with you or another DM if you want to sometime? I will be on at some point tonight (as soon as the kiddos are sleeping).
I am pretty sure the recover DCs are about 10 higher than the disable, but we could check that to?
Hit me up if you need me to run through anything
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Raist
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Official BG:SCC Birthday Greeter Player name: King Baldur
Posts: 279
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Post by Raist on Nov 10, 2008 18:40:40 GMT -5
Well im not sure what you are asking, but i guess you want to know how high you put the dc on your traps.
things to take in mind, a character can have level +3 SP in disarm. then + int modyfier and perhaps a few items, and then the 20 roll... There is a border to the strength non rogues can disarm, i think it is DC 20, but i might be wrong. You then defenetly want 20+ DC on all traps (Except perhaps a few very low level areas), so that you must have rogues levels to disarm them, otherwise you will just see a lot of non rogues with disarm traps running around.
When all comes to all, i think its a matter of trying them out, then perhaps raising/lowering the DC's in future updates.
All this, at the risk of telling grandpa how to sit in the sofa, talking about his time in the army.
just my 2 cents
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amwyth
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Posts: 80
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Post by amwyth on Nov 10, 2008 19:56:07 GMT -5
This is a link to NWN2Wiki. I hope it helps. nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/TrapAlso, only rogues can detect traps that are higher than DC20, and only rogues can disable traps of a higher than DC20. Just to clear it up. I don't think all traps need to be so high only rogues can deal with them though, that would be a lot of wasted points for those that did put them in Disable Device. Plenty should require a rogue but, not all.
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Post by mingming on Nov 10, 2008 22:25:58 GMT -5
I know that there used to be a rough guideline in the RPGA when writing scenarios and encounters. As hazards, traps usually followed an unofficial formula of APL (Average Party Level) +10 for natural hazards and standard non-magical traps in terms of DC's for skill checks to overcome them (Jump, Climb, Disable Device, etc.) Magical Traps almost always followed the pattern of APL +20, and this usually held true for plot specific hazards as well. Hope that helps.
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Post by DEV Jlf2n on Nov 12, 2008 18:24:38 GMT -5
yeah I should worded that a little better. What I should have said was.
What disarm and detect levels would be a challenge for a lvl 5 rouge?
What about a lvl 10? 15? 20? What numbers would present a nice but not impossible challenge at each of these levels?
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Post by broham2 on Nov 12, 2008 18:38:42 GMT -5
I sent you a PM with my Open Lock skill stats at various levels of my current build, just so you can get an idea.
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Raist
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Post by Raist on Nov 12, 2008 18:42:31 GMT -5
lv 5 rogue would be able to have a disarm/ detect base skill at 8 + various bonus.. and added a lv 20 roll in combat, a take 20 outside combat. So easy would be 25, moderate 30 and challenging 35. Then add +1 to DC for every level....? If anything, thats too high a DC, might be better to go a bit lower. Thats just my assumption/guess, hope it helps
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Post by eldur(retired) on Nov 12, 2008 19:10:55 GMT -5
yeah I should worded that a little better. What I should have said was. What disarm and detect levels would be a challenge for a lvl 5 rouge? What about a lvl 10? 15? 20? What numbers would present a nice but not impossible challenge at each of these levels? I would set a trap DC at 13 + the level of difficulty. For a level 5 rogue, this would be a DC of 18, and if they are dedicated to traps, they will have 8 ranks in disable by level 5. That rogue will need to beat a 10 to disarm the trap. They will only set if off on a "1" in this case. (A fail is a "1" or if you fail your roll by 10) It's reasonable to assume a dedicated rogue will not blow up an even level trap unless he loses focus (rolls a 1), but it's still a 50-50 chance to disarm an even level trap. If they are in a group and challenging themselves to a level 10 area (which is reasonable for a good group), the odds have just dropped by 25%. The level 5 rogue with 8 ranks will now face a 23 DC trap. They will need to roll a 15 or better. If they roll a 5 or less, they'll set it off. Now keep in mind, a higher intelligence or skill focus will help their odds. This same rule can be applied to locks as well. Check out this link for various traps that fit the appropriate DC: nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Set_trapWhat you can do is figure out the level of dungeon and place traps based on this link. So in the example of a level 5 dungeon, your normal traps will be DC 18. Throughout the dungeon, you may want to put a bunch of the DC 15 traps down, and then in the "boss" areas, put in DC 20 traps. So maybe use a bunch of Minor Acid Splash traps (DC 15), but in the tricky area, put in an average Spike Trap (DC20). This will kindof average the area out to level 5. The variety of DC's is nice as you don't want to be too predictable One other note, only a rogue can disable traps of DC 35 or better. This would mean only a rogue can disable your level 22+ epic traps.
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Post by broham2 on Nov 12, 2008 19:42:26 GMT -5
I'd prefer more of a challenge, and less of a chance for non-rogues to be able to open locks.. so if all of that was increased by about 3-6 I'd be happy!
There are enough good picks in the game to make that reasonable.
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Post by eldur(retired) on Nov 12, 2008 19:54:30 GMT -5
Non-rogues will have to cross class the skill.
At level 10, they will have 6 ranks in disable.
Against a level 10 lock (DC23) They will need to roll a 17 or better.
It gets worst as they level up.
At level 20, they will have 11 ranks in disable. A level 20 lock is 33 so they have no chance at disabling it.
The rogue that specializes in traps will also be able to recover it (I forget the DC for that, but it's much higher) and re-use it or sell it for gold.
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Post by broham2 on Nov 12, 2008 20:07:12 GMT -5
Ok ok, I yield to the unwavering Loremaster.. lol. I think your breakdown makes sense, and I guess I dont want it so hard that it isnt fun.. its already hard enough to fight as a rogue!
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Raist
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Post by Raist on Nov 12, 2008 20:13:06 GMT -5
Hmm, yeah you should probably listent to eldur, not me
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Post by eldur(retired) on Nov 12, 2008 20:49:01 GMT -5
I know that there used to be a rough guideline in the RPGA when writing scenarios and encounters. As hazards, traps usually followed an unofficial formula of APL (Average Party Level) +10 for natural hazards and standard non-magical traps in terms of DC's for skill checks to overcome them (Jump, Climb, Disable Device, etc.) Magical Traps almost always followed the pattern of APL +20, and this usually held true for plot specific hazards as well. Hope that helps. This makes a heck of a lot of sense too. DC = Level +10 for routine hazards DC = Level +20 for the areas you desire to have the most challenge. I guess on average it'll work out to level +13 as you'll have a lot more routine hazards than plot or "boss" hazards.
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tlantl
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Post by tlantl on Nov 12, 2008 23:23:54 GMT -5
Non-rogues will have to cross class the skill. At level 10, they will have 6 ranks in disable. Against a level 10 lock (DC23) They will need to roll a 17 or better. It gets worst as they level up. At level 20, they will have 11 ranks in disable. A level 20 lock is 33 so they have no chance at disabling it. The rogue that specializes in traps will also be able to recover it (I forget the DC for that, but it's much higher) and re-use it or sell it for gold. Non-rogues cannot remove traps with a dc over 20. No matter how many ranks they have in disable device. Opening locks is far more difficult for non-rogues unless they they took the able learner feat. Some classes will never be able to spend ranks on open locks since they don't get more than three skill points. But even one point gives you a chance to roll a twenty and open most easy locks. on a related note, if the trap or lock is on an important chest there aught to be a way for everyone to overcome the trap or open the lock.
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