mute83
Active Member
Posts: 196
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Post by mute83 on May 12, 2009 11:28:48 GMT -5
cleave/greater cleve, requires that you kill a target first, the other works all the time.
and luck of heroes, aint that a background feat? so you can only pick it a first level, and cant pick another BG feat.
Improved Two-Weapon Defense Type of feat: General
Prerequisite: Dex 17, BAB +6, Two-weapon Fighting, Two-weapon Defense, Improved Two-weapon Fighting or Improved Two-weapon Fighting (Combat Style: Ranger Two Weapon Fighting)
Required for: None
Specifics: When wielding a double weapon or two weapons, you gain a +2 shield bonus to your AC. When using the Parry action, this is replaced with a +4 skill bonus added to your Parry skill check to avoid an incoming blow.
A Fighter may select Improved Two-Weapon Defense as one of his Fighter bonus feats.
Use: Automatic
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Post by hnefi on May 12, 2009 11:29:54 GMT -5
You're right. It's +2, my mistake. Still, hardly among the most powerful feats in the game.
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laurk
Active Member
Posts: 105
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Post by laurk on May 12, 2009 13:04:46 GMT -5
1 feat that give you the same benifit of a shield without the armor check penalty, adds +4 to the Parry skill AND still allows you to make an extra attack per round without any downside whatsoever is very powerful.
No feat that I know of gives you a +4 to any one skill. that alone is powerful. Skill focus only gives you a +3.
combat expertese gives you a +3AC at the cost of -3 to attack. A large shield gives you a +2 but lowers your parry by 2 due to the armor check penalty. With a large shield you cannot take an off hand attack in NWN (shield bash in PnP).
There is just no way you can say this feat is isnt badarse.
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Post by hnefi on May 12, 2009 13:19:38 GMT -5
Parry sucks, due to the flurry bug. I see no reason to even take it into account when discussing OP items or feats. For another feat that gives +4 to a skill, see Combat Casting; neither that nor +4 to parry is anything to bother with, though. A shield can give you anywhere from +1 to +7; don't choose one of the weakest shields just because it fits your argument.
Sure, on an item, ITWD is pretty good since it doesn't require TWD first, but it's still not a huge deal. In any event, this discussion is pretty pointless, because I'm rather sure such an item wouldn't be added to the server anyway.
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laurk
Active Member
Posts: 105
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Post by laurk on May 12, 2009 14:43:50 GMT -5
What is the flurry bug? My character utterly depends upon parry to survive, and it seems to work pretty well. I would "love" to have a +4 parry bonus. I don't see how this is useless.
I didnt pick the "weakest" shield. I picked a heavy shield. Its the middle shield, and the best you can use without a feat.
Thats hardly the point. Its a single feat that gives you a +2 bonus to AC and deflects arrows just like a shield (unless I am mistaken). All without having to actually "equip" a shield, all the while maintaining your bonus attacks.
Combat casting "negates" the -4 penalty to concentration checks made when casting in defensive casting mode. It doesn't add anything.
This discussion may be moot, but when you claim that a single feat that adds +2 to AC, +4 to a skill (which I find quite useful), works in tandum with duel wielding and has 0 negatives "isnt" powerful I like to try and understand how you can justify that. I mean... you did say that my claim was "ridiculous" even if clearly, that doesn't seem to be the case. I don't mean to be in a major discussion about it.. its just I have to wonder exactly what you "would" consider to be a powerful feat if not this... every example you've posted ive shown to be pretty inferior to this one.
Edit: I can think of several feats I consider more powerful... some even game-breaking. Heck there are some feats that are so freaking ridiculous that I won't even utter them here because i dont want anyone who doesn't know the reason they are so powerful to figure it out... otherwise we'll wind up with people running around sporting 70 ACs. But TWD is certainly in the upper echelon of high powered feats. Whats the point of taking a shield when some someone else can get more attacks AND benifit as though they have a shield? If one of their swords is a "defender +3" they may as well have a heavy shield +3 for a total +5 bonus... all while maintaining that extra attacks from duel wielding.
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Post by hnefi on May 12, 2009 15:31:00 GMT -5
The flurry bug, or parry bug, means that you can only parry one attack in each flurry. So, let's say you face a fighter with 6 attacks, at -0, -5, -10, -15, -20, -25 AB. They get divided into three flurries: (-0, -5), (-10, -15), (-20, -25). Let's say you have six attacks too; that means you should be able to parry all his attacks, right? Wrong. You can only parry one attack each flurry. That means you get at most 3 ripostes against him, while he gets 3 free attacks against you, at -5, -15, -25. It gets worse the more attacks he has; if you were ever to meet a dualwielding kama monk, you'd be toast.
You picked an unenchanted heavy shield. That's the second weakest shield in the game. This server has tower shields with +3 enchantment, giving +7 bonus. And NO shield can be used without a feat; some classes get light/heavy shield feats for free, fighter gets tower shield proficiency for free as well.
Shields don't deflect arrows, and neither does the ITWD feat.
What I consider the most powerful feats are things like HiPS, Divine Might, Divine Shield (and their epic versions), Improved Evasion, metamagic feats, and the like. +2 AC is nice and all, but hardly "among the most powerful feats". Especially when you actually have to pay two feats to get it (TWD is a prerequisite for ITWD, obviously, thought that's moot if given on an item).
By the way, "defender" weapons give deflection AC. It doesn't stack with AC from rings, cloaks and helmets. The great thing about actual shields is that they give +1 to +4 base AC, PLUS up to +3 AC that stacks with everything except the Shield spell. You can only get 2/7th of that with ITWD, at the cost of two feats normally. Completely not worth it, unless you have feats to spare.
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laurk
Active Member
Posts: 105
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Post by laurk on May 12, 2009 18:16:02 GMT -5
There is a shield that gives you a +4 base? small shield +1, large shield +2, tower shield +3. Am I missing one?
Shields do deflect arrows. Abby does it all the time, even when I don't have parry activated. Monsters also do it all the time.
That list of feats you put down were pretty much the ones ive got in my list of overpowered feats... particularly divine shield which is game breaking. I wouldn't rank TWD among those, but it beats the average feat.
Anyway, kudos.
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joleda
Active Member
Posts: 238
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Post by joleda on May 12, 2009 18:16:58 GMT -5
TWD adds +1 AC (Shield) ITWD adds +2 AC (Shield) Both are the physical AC.
Shield spell adds +4 AC (Shield) This is magical AC.
Combining ITWD and the Shield spell gives the equivalent of a Heavy Shield +4.
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laurk
Active Member
Posts: 105
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Post by laurk on May 12, 2009 19:02:55 GMT -5
Id love to see more poisons which do more things... like knock you unconcious such as "Blue Whinnis." Or kill you such as "Death Blade."
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Post by luna on May 12, 2009 19:37:35 GMT -5
Hey.. I want VORPAL weapons.
I miss those...
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Post by hnefi on May 13, 2009 0:34:13 GMT -5
There is a shield that gives you a +4 base? small shield +1, large shield +2, tower shield +3. Am I missing one? Tower Shield is +4, not +3. If you mean the "parried" message, that's just flavour text which sometimes occurs when an archer rolled below the AC of a person equipped with a shield. It's nothing like the deflect arrow line of feats, which automatically make arrows miss. So no, they don't deflect arrows - at least not any more than any other type of AC.
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mute83
Active Member
Posts: 196
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Post by mute83 on May 13, 2009 9:03:10 GMT -5
There is a shield that gives you a +4 base? small shield +1, large shield +2, tower shield +3. Am I missing one? Shields do deflect arrows. Abby does it all the time, even when I don't have parry activated. Monsters also do it all the time. That list of feats you put down were pretty much the ones ive got in my list of overpowered feats... particularly divine shield which is game breaking. I wouldn't rank TWD among those, but it beats the average feat. Anyway, kudos. arent you forgetting medium shields? you can use small, medium and large shileds, with the shield feat, and the ability for using tower shilds, is a feat for it self, of what i remember
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Post by hnefi on May 13, 2009 9:06:24 GMT -5
There is no such thing as a "medium" shield. Light, heavy, tower. That's it.
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